Author Topic: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900  (Read 1229 times)

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 26 May 18 10:17 BST (UK) »
I have found him on the 1871 census as Surrender Smith, 26, single, traveller, birthplace unknown, lodging in the household of a Thomas Whatford at East Molesey, Surrey, England. A couple of prison register results are showing for him at Findmypast, one as Surrender Smith, b.1844, in 1861, and one as Surrender/Henry, Smith/Hopwood/Buckland, in 1865, but I am not currently a member there to see the details. No luck finding a baptism for him in Acton or Ipsden, Oxfordshire under Surrender/Render or Henry.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

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Offline richarde1979

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 26 May 18 10:43 BST (UK) »
Managed to find out some details of the prison records from the British Newspaper Archive.

As Surrender Smith, 17, he was arrested with a William Cooper, in October 1861, decsribed as 'two rough looking lads' charged with throwing stones at chest nut trees at Oaklands Park, Surrey, breaking branches, on two consecutive days, for which they were fined six pence damages and fifteen shillings costs.

The second case took place in January 1865, when he was accused with an accomplice, of stealing a large quantity of gold and silver hidden in a rolled up sock, belonging to Rito Smith, another Gypsy, unrelated to him, who lived in a tent across from his own, on a piece of ground, in the York-road, Battersea. In that case it states he had previously been convicted at Surrey Sessions on 21st April 1862, using the name Henry Hopwood,  and sentenced to twelve months for horse stealing.

Whether these details can help identify him further I don't know. I see Eric Trudgill has the Hopwood family listed linked to the Bucklands on one of his works on the Buckland family published by the RTFHS. The family arn't listed on his Gypsygenealogy website though.

Looking at the children for Render on the census 1871-1911:

Richard/Robert Smith 1873
Parron Smith 1881 Hendon, Middlesex, or Teddington, Middlesex died 1929 Barnet Middlesex
Agnes smith 1885 Hendon, middlesex
Walter Smith 1886 Walton On Thames, Surrey or hendon
Lydia Smith 1893 Walton On Thames, Surrey
Elizabeth Smith 1897

That does fit with the photos if Agnes is the unindentified teenage girl. If they were taken 1899/1900, the ages of the four children fit very well. Perhaps she sadly died shortly after, before the 1901 census was taken?
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

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Offline richarde1979

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 26 May 18 14:20 BST (UK) »
Found out a little more

Rito Smith, the victim of Render Smith's theft, had two daughters, with his partner Trinity:

Cinnamente Smith baptised 1851 atIsham, Northamptonshire
Centina Smith baptised 1854 at Newton Bromswold, Northamptonshire

Both sisters were married at Brentford in June 1874, Centina as Sentina Smith to George Seaby and Cinnamente as Sinamenty Smith to John Mark Hearn.

Obviously the last couple are the same as Mark Hearn and Sinneamenty Hearn in my photographs. It seems a coincidence the photographer would also take a photo of the children of Render Smith, the same man who had thirty five years earlier been in prison for stealing from Cinnamente's father, Rito. I think despite Render's claim that he was camping with, but not related to Rito, at his 1865 trial, he probably was, and was later forgiven after he had served his jail time, and taken back into the family fold. I may order the 1874 wedding certificate for details of Mark's father.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 26 May 18 14:34 BST (UK) »
.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline panished

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 27 May 18 08:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Richard

In the records of the Smiths that i have came across there is one from 1847, it tells of a young man fighting with a Gipsy, he ends up stabbed and nearly died, the story is in the Leicester Journal Friday November 12, the young man is just named as Warren, there was an argument in a Public House in Sutton Bassett with Gypsies, this fight carried on down the road and Warren ended up stabbed, the man who stabbed him was only known as Smith, he was then on the run, his location unknown, if you then read the London Evening Standard Thursday 18 July 1850 Warren is now known by the name of Samuel Warren Burdett, Smith who as now been captured, goes by the name Rito Smith, the Gipsy, he ends up sentenced to be transported for ten years.

I do not know if this Rito is the same one as the one with Surrender Smith that you talk about. Well done with the Books you have wrote, keep up the good work.

michael
 
 

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 30 May 18 11:00 BST (UK) »
Hello Michael

Thanks for the input and the kind words for my books, hope you are well. There were a few Rito/Righto/Wrighto Smiths around at that time. The transported Rito was the son of Samuel Smith and Annamonty/Cinamenty baptised at Gloostone, Liecester in October 1825. He stayed out in Australia and died there. There was another elder Rito baptised Norton, Northamptonshire in 1814. He married Comfort Smith  at Fenny Compton, Warwickshire, September 1833 and seems to be the same man buried as 'Rito Smith, 28, a Gypsy' at Stockton, Warwickshire, 20 July 1841.

Mark Hearne's wife Cinementa appears to be the daughter of a third even elder Rito, baptised at Wymington, Bedfordshire, England, in 1805, to Samuel and Sophia Smith,  married in 1793. They had at least two other children, Elijah Smith, baptised ‘born in the top road’, son of Samuel Smith and Sophia 'Gipsies' at Sapcote, Leicestershire, on 31st May 1798, in a joint ceremony with Arqetta Smith,  daughter of Absalom Smith and Elizabeth, and  Divers Lazarus Smith, ‘born in Biggin in the town of Newton’, baptised as son of Samuel Smith and Sophia, ‘Egiptians’,  on 22nd May 1803, at Clifton upon Dunsmore, Warwickshire.

That Rito Smith baptised a daughter Kezia Smith, in Northampton 1831, with a partner called Ambrate. He much later partnered Trinity smith, and had Cinementa in 1851 and her younger sister Centina in 1854. He was buried at Hendon, Middlesex, in 1868, three years after the theft by Render Smith, an age of 66 given for him on the burial.

Looking at the trial details for Render it seems he didn't actually steal the money, he acted as look out whilst John Lewis, an apprentice of Rito did the actual theft. They both then went off and spent the money on new clothes. This might have helped Render build bridges with Rito's daughters when he was eventually released from prison, maybe he'd been led astray by the other young man.

Not quite sure how these three Rito Smiths were related, though I'm sure they were. I think the elder Rito was perhaps uncle to both the younger two. The forename Righto seems to have first been used in the Buckley/Buckland family in the 1760s, so maybe there is a wider link to them too, especially as Render Smith used their surname as an alias.




Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 30 May 18 11:28 BST (UK) »
To add to the above, over the weekend I was reading the newly published book by Alan Wright 'Their Day has Passed - Gypsies in Victorian and Edwardian Surrey'. It's a great read with lots of info about individual traveller families in the region, even found a couple of references to my own connected families, my niece's great-grandparents Job/Joseph Parker and Louisa Ayres.

Anyway I was also suprised to see there a photo of Render Smith's son and wife camped at Epsom on Derby Day, 2 June 1910, with Dozer Smith and Jack Symes. This was a couple of months after the photos taken of them in Hertfordshire by Fred Shaw. The boy is definitely the boy in my photos taken about a decade earlier. I havn't identified Dozer Smith or Jack Symes yet, but I am hoping they might give some further clues to Render's parents and wider family.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline panished

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 02 June 18 14:25 BST (UK) »
Hi Richard

As always very interesting words from you, i always read your posts several times for they have great knowledge in their content, always to, very interesting.

Richard, i have been trying to look for the Pullens you write about, i find in the way i research if you go sideways or completely of course you can find an older link, there is some hawkers on the south of the Country, plus some up the Yorkshire way, i will put a few records up for you, and i found some of your good wife's long Family's the Ayres, i will put them on for you, i know you know lots but i like evan trying to help someone as talented as yourself, well done again with your Boswell Books.

michael
 

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 14:51 BST (UK) »
Thanks Michael, I appreciate your efforts, you never know what these side lines will bring up or where they might lead.

I have been researching the Ayres family now for near on a decade, collecting all I can on them, always happy to find out more. My niece’s late great-grandmother (my brother-in-law's grandmother) was Matilda ‘Tilly’ Ayres born 1916, on a fixed site at Walton on Thames, Surrey, daughter of Joseph ‘Job’ Ayres. She married her cousin who the son of her aunt Mary Ann Olive Ayres, born on 26th July 1883, in a tent on Epsom Common. I’ve traced them back to William Ayres, born circa 1781, a licensed hawker of Ashmansworth and East Woodhay, Hampshire, who was transported to Australia in 1817, for 14 years. He escaped from a Sydney Chain Gang in 1824 was recaptured and transported again on the Sally to the new penal colony of Port Macquarie, two hundred and sixty miles north of Emu Plains, but can’t find any trace of him after that. William’s wife Orlanda/Orlenda, remarried after William was transported, and was buried as Lender Sherlock aged forty-eight, at Fetcham, Surrey on 17th February 1833.  I am pretty sure William’s parents were Reuben Ayres and Jane ‘Jenny’ Stanley, but have never been able to conclusively prove it.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London