Marriage? Alexander Grant / Mary Rollins, Edinburgh and Moray, around 1790-1809

[Potterer]

Can anyone please  help me to find the above marriage?   I can't find one in the Scotland's People records, and it may even have been somewhere in England, as I explain below....

My ancestor Alexander Grant, who  was probably born about 1775, probably in Campbelltown (now Ardersier), on the Moray Firth near Inverness, had a son, George in 1809, 8th July, St.Cuthbert's, Edinburgh.... “ Alexr. Grant 10th Militia and May Ann Rollins his spouse..” 

His 1851 Census birthplace looks like "Campbeton".. but was almost certainly not the one in Argyll - its not "Grant country", and I can find hardly any Grants in the Registers at this time.

Also I discovered that Ardersier in Moray was formerly called Campbelltown, and that there were two 10th Militias in Scotland in the Naploleonic period - Edinburgh, and Inverness.    I had originally presumed that his was the 10th (Edinburgh) Regiment of the North British Militia, commanded by the Duke of Buccleuch, since that's where records of his children find him living, but having discovered Ardersier/Campbelltown in Moray, now I think it was probably the Inverness 10th Militia commanded by Sir James Grant of Grant, then visiting Edinburgh during the Napoleonic Wars -   Both had barracks at Musselburgh, and served at Edinburgh Castle.

The Inverness 10th Militia was sent down to Portsmouth, where it was apparently used to deal with riots on the Isle of Wight and to replace troops sent to fight Napoleon. They seem to have marched down to Portsmouth in 1809, then were shipped back to Inverness around 1814. 

The dates just allow for George to be conceived in time for his birth in 1809, and similarly his sister Mary in 1815, but the movements of the Inverness 10th suggest he must have married in Scotland, despite the lack of an OPR record  -  unless for some reason Alexander's movements don't always correspond with the official movements of his Militia, in which case he might just have married in England....

( Scotland's People's excellent records aren't infallible - two of his definite grandchildren don't appear in them either, but do in IGI - another complicated story! )

Has anyone access to anything which might help identify his marriage to help push our tree further, or any suggestions at all?

Or was he actually in the Edinburgh 10th Militia after all? - does anyone know of their movements at this time?
 
Many thanks for reading all this!

[Forfarian]

I discovered that Ardersier in Moray was formerly called Campbelltown.

Yes and no.

It is true that Campbelltown is now called Ardersier, but it is not true that Ardersier was formerly called  Campbelltown!

The explanation of that slightly bizarre statement is that the village now known as Ardersier was originally called Campbelltown, but the name Ardersier applies to the whole parish, and it long pre-dates the development of the village of Campbelltown.

Writing in 1792, the Rev Pryse Campbell says, "The number of inhabitants, according to the oldest people now alive, would not exceed 300, 60 or even 50 years ago. Dr Webster's state" [1755] "was 428; the amount of the inhabitants now is 802. Males 385; females 417. In the village of Campbelltown, which owes its birth to the garrison of Fort-george, there are 293 souls. The garrison of Fort-george, exclusive of the marching regiment stationed in it, but including 3 companies of invalids, consists of 496 souls, of whom are 246 males, and 250 females". See stataccscot.edina.ac.uk/static/statacc/dist/viewer/osa-vol4-Parish_record_for_Ardersier_in_the_county_of_Inverness_in_volume_4_of_account_1/

Fort George was built after the Jacobite Rising of 1745 as part of the government's policy of suppressing Jacobitism and the clan system.

Also the parish of Ardersier is in the county of Inverness, not the county of Moray. In religious terms it is in the presbytery of Nairn and synod of Moray.

Scotland's People's excellent records aren't infallible - two of his definite grandchildren don't appear in them either, but do in IGI - another complicated story!

I hope that you have tracked down and checked where the information in the IGI about those grandchildren came from. The IGI, as its name suggests, is an index, not a primary source, and while a lot of the information on it relating to Scotland is correct, there are some very dubious bits of information on it. (If you don't believe this, do a search for given name Odin, birth in Norway, 0100 to 0700, and see what you get.)

In general, do not trust anything you find online unless it is an image of an original document.

[Pennines]

I suppose it is possible that Alexander and his bride may have had an 'irregular marriage' at one of the border places which held such events - such as Gretna, Coldstream Bridge, Lamberton (and I think there are a couple of other such places.)

All I know is that Northumberland Family History Society and probably Northumberland Archives - have details of some of the events which occurred in these places. There are probably Archives in Scotland which may have them as well.

I have checked the Military marriages on Find My Past - but couldn't find one for this couple (doesn't mean it's not there of course!)

An 'Irregular Marriage' is just a thought to explore if all else fails.

[Forfarian]

Yes, they may well have done. Many marriages in the 18th century were never recorded by the church, or if they were, the records have not survived.

I did find in the kirk session minutes of the parish of East Monkland an item about a couple who had sneaked off to Edinburgh and been irregularly married. They were duly fined and scolded, then absolved and allowed to get on with their lives.

It's important to realise that SP does not hold all the surviving records, even though it does hold the vast majority. In particular it doesn't have access to the records of episcopalian congregations. Rollins isn't an especially Scottish surname, and if Mary was English they may have been married by an episcopalian priest, even if they were married in Scotland.

[Potterer]

Many thanks to all for your prompt replies.

Forfarian - thanks for the background on Ardersier, I should have got the right county too.. !

I puzzled for ages about Alexander's birthplace in the 1851 Census, which looks rather like "Campbeton Pa " . The only Campbelltown I found in the gazetteers I used was the Argyll one, and I tripped over Ardersier/Campbelltown ( also Stewarton, next door I believe,) by accident.

Fort George there is very impressive and well worth a visit - the Highlanders Museum in the fort  there has very helpful staff and useful records too, which I was able to use to track the movements of the Inverness 10th Militia.

You are quite right about going to primary sources, of course.... 
The info on IGI does correspond with later Census records of the grandchildren -
it seems from what you say that they won't appear in the OPR's because they appear to have been registered with the Bread Street Relief Presbyterian congregation in Edinburgh.

Pennines - thanks for the Irregular Marriage information - as a militiaman its not unlikely for Alexander I guess - and thanks for checking military marriages.
The Border marriages would be worth checking. as you suggest.

Forfarian again:- I wonder what percentage of 18th century marriages etc weren't recorded?

I did read that the fee introduced (by George?) to register BMD's meant that very poor folk sometimes didn't bother, if cash was short.

Your point on Episcopalian marriage records not on Scotland's People is interesting  in the light of my comment above about the later Bread Street Presbyterian congregation, whose Minister, Reverend James Scott, married Alexander's son George, and Janet Borthwick in 1831, and (pace your IGI comment) at which George's children were possibly recorded too.

I wonder why George changed religious allegiance from that of his father?

Alexander's children and second marriage were all registered at St. Cuthbert's, Edinburgh -I wonder if Alexander was sympathetic to non-conformism (right word in Scotland?) too at the time of his first marriage, which I seek?

Are there any records of Episcopalian BMD's? - and if so where, please?

Many thanks for your trouble reading all this !

[Forfarian]

it seems from what you say that they won't appear in the OPRs because they appear to have been registered with the Bread Street Relief Presbyterian congregation in Edinburgh.

Not unless/until the current owners of any surviving registers give their permission for SP to include their records.

Forfarian again:- I wonder what percentage of 18th century marriages etc weren't recorded?

I don't know, but it must be a significant proportion if my database is anything to go by. At least 20%, probably much more.

I did read that the fee introduced (by George?) to register BMD's meant that very poor folk sometimes didn't bother, if cash was short.

Yes, a fee was briefly introduced about 1790 or so, but as it was clearly affecting the numbers having their children's baptisms recorded, it was done away with. However it was customary in most parishes to charge a fee for proclaiming banns, and the money from this went to the poors fund.

(After the start of registration in 1855 there were no fees for registering a birth or a death, because you could not choose whether or not to be born or die, but there was a fee for registering a marriage, because marriage was a matter of choice.)

Your point on Episcopalian marriage records not on Scotland's People is interesting  in the light of my comment above about the later Bread Street Presbyterian congregation, whose Minister, Reverend James Scott, married Alexander's son George, and Janet Borthwick in 1831, and (pace your IGI comment) at which George's children were possibly recorded too.

Presbyterian and Episcopalian are mutually exclusive. They are two different types of church hierarchy.

I wonder why George changed religious allegiance from that of his father?

People did, for all sorts of reasons - convenience, marrying a spouse of a different denomination, strong religious beliefs, preferring the rituals of a different denomination, sudden conversion, falling out with the minister etc etc etc.

Are there any records of Episcopalian BMD's? - and if so where, please?

There are, but they are all over the place. Some are still with the churches, some in diocesan archives, some in dusty cupboards or kists, some in local or university archives. I do not know of any list of what Episcopalian registers survive and where they all are.

it seems from what you say that they won't appear in the OPRs because they appear to have been registered with the Bread Street Relief Presbyterian congregation in Edinburgh.

The OPRs are the surving pre-1855 registers of the Church of Scotland, which were gathered by law by the Registrar General in 1855 when civil registration was introduced. Other churches, unlike the C of S, were not compelled to hand their registers over to the RG. Thus by definition the registers of any other kirk are not OPRs, and if listed on SP would be in the 'Other Churches' section.

[Potterer]

Forfarian:- Many thanks for all your very helpful information, duly noted.
I does look as if my chances of finding the Grant/Rollins marriage aren't too good, but I'll keep trying.

Someone did suggest that Kirk Session records may be useful, especially if the pair fell foul of the Elders! I'm not sure if they are accessible / searchable though.

Many thanks again.
Potterer.

[Forfarian]

Someone did suggest that Kirk Session records may be useful, especially if the pair fell foul of the Elders! I'm not sure if they are accessible / searchable though.

At the moment, to read the Kirk Session minutes you need to go in person either to the Historical Search Room in General Register House in Edinburgh or to one of the few local archives in Scotland where they can also be viewed (Aberdeen, Hawick, Inverness and Glasgow that I know of, but there may be others).

The reason I have not suggested this source is that you would need to know in which parish to look for a record in the Kirk Session minutes. There were over 800 parishes in Scotland, each of which had a Kirk Session, and most of them have left multiple volumes of minutes.

You also need to bear in mind that the Church of Scotland Kirk Sessions dealt only with the misdemeanours of adherents of the C of S, so if your folk did not belong to the C of S there will be no record of them in the KS records.

As you are not even sure that they were married in Scotland, it would be an impossible task to read through all of them, just on the off-chance that they were C of S members and had been irregularly married and the KS found out about it and the clerk recorded what action was taken.

There are plans to make the KS minutes available on SP, but first they need to sort out how to do so, because the minutes are in chronological order, there are no indexes, and there can be multiple references to one case.

The only Campbelltown I found in the gazetteers I used was the Argyll one

See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=758930.0. In general, modern maps and gazetteers are unsatisfactory when looking for places in Scotland, because so many places no longer exist, and because modern maps and gazetteers take no account of the historic boundaries of counties and parishes.

[Potterer]

Forfarian,
Many thanks again for all the useful information.

I can see what you mean about the Kirk Session records - I did find a scanned copy of the Inverness Kirk Session online - a very interesting glimpse into the concerns and squabbles of the kirk and its folk, but a lifetime to search for anything specific, as you say - unless and until there's something like automated scanning of them  to create searchable text anyway.

Thanks too for the very useful placefinder link to https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/places in your other post re place names, although at a quick glance I still don't find Ardersier suggested as an alternative when searching for Campbelltown there, or vice versa.   Maybe its me.

Also, your sound advice to confirm the Parish and County when searching place names gets me wondering - the birthplace of "my" Alexander Grant in the 1851 Census*  looks rather like "Campbeton pa", which I took to mean possibly "Campbelltown parish" - BUT from what you say, Campbelltown was the name of the village ONLY , it was not the parish name.   The parish was Ardersier.     Am I going mad?!

* (1851 Census St. Cuthberts Edinburgh, 76[?] Crosscauseway, Alexander Grant aged 75, retired shoemaker, GROS/SP reference 685/02 149/02 007)