Mystery Woman from Essex

[philipsearching]

Found her on the new birth index!
KINGER, FLORA  LAVINIA     
mother's maiden surname —
GRO Reference: 1872  M Quarter in WEST HAM UNION  Volume 04A  Page 30

Genius!

My fuzzy search on GRO for RINGER didn't pick up KINGER - but there she is.
In that case, ordering the birth certificate would at least give the mother's name.

[jonw65]

Well it confirms that Flora was almost certainly illegitimate. And Olivia with the mother Lavinia must be the likeliest person to be Flora's mother -  she seems to have had only one sister, also called Lavinia, who likely died age 10 in 1861.
 

[LizzieL]

Well done, I had tried a few possibilities but all starting with R.
Looks like she might have been illeg with no mmn

[Deb Clark Rennie]

There is a James R Ringer that is on the list for Wells, Norfolk and Binham ... starting as rural postman to foreman. Which I've found him on the census but he was born in 1858 and if she was born in 1872 ... then he would have been too young.

Unusual, but not illegal.
1875 - Offences Against The Person Act - set age of consent at 13.
1885 - Criminal Law Amendment Act - raised age of consent to 16.


There is possible birth on GRO:
RINGER James Robert, Jun qtr 1858 Walsingham vol 4b p309 mmn PULL

The postmaster clue is a great lead.

I would be inclined to bear the Norfolk RINGER possibilities in mind (also the potential relative Olivia RINGER-Arthur SMITH marriage in 1873), but hold back until the Flora/Florence birth issue is resolved.


Maybe we should send a Rootschatter Prayer to the spirit of Postmaster James Ringer to speed the delivery of the certificate 

Philip

Ha ha yes let's hope it comes in sooner than a week!  I feel your intital thought that she's daughter of the Olivia Ringer is a good possibility.

Blessings
Deb

[philipsearching]

Well it confirms that Flora was almost certainly illegitimate. And Olivia with the mother Lavinia must be the likeliest person to be Flora's mother -  she seems to have had only one sister, also called Lavinia, who likely died age 10 in 1861.

from FamilySearch - 1881 census RG11 1708/118 p26 - Catherine Cottages, West Ham
Olivia SMITH 30, born New Buckingham, Norfolk with Husband Arthur and children Alice 6 & Alfred H 3.

Still no sign of Flora/Florence in 1881.

[Deb Clark Rennie]

Goodness you have all been busy thank you all so much for your time and tips - it's the small hours here in Australia and I just had to hop on and check.  I ordered a PDF of the birth for Flora Lavinia yesterday so let's hope it reveals the same birthdate that Florence Olivia used on the 1939 census as that would really prove it's her.

Still weird that there is actually a James Ringer postman but he could be a relative she has used to cover her illegitimatacy? 

Now if we can only work out where she was all her childhood?  Doesn't appear to be with the smith family? Wonder if she was placed in a home?  Seems to run in my mother's family.  My dad always said my grandmother Ethel Maud Dolton was an odd woman.  Her first husband died when she was pregnant with her 3rd child and all three were placed in the George Mueler orphanage to spare them from the workhouse.  Which I understand but she left them there and built a new life marrying my grandfather and having a whole new family.  Her first born son Ron once he was of age to leave the home went looking for her and found her.  Thankfully my grandfather was a good sort and took the three on and after the Second World War he came out to Australia with Ron to start a building business prior to the rest of the family including my mother coming out.

Sadly my mother died when I was just 6 leaving my own dad with 4 girls me being the oldest ... there was no single parent pension back then so we were sent to live with different families until eventually we too were placed in a home for 3 years until dad remarried ... but we weren't just left there he took us out most week ends. 

My Aunty Lily who is now in her 80's also recalls they too were sent out to homes especially during the war years to be kept safe. 

Thank you all again ... hopefully this mystery might be closer to being solved!
Blessings
Deb

[iolaus]

I did find a Flora SMITH on the 1891 census aged 16 - so would suggest 1875 birth - born West Ham as a visitor with the Taylor family (which may indicate the age is guessed at) - and no corresponding Flora Smith birth - maybe she used her step fathers name

There is a Flora SMITH on the 1881 census in Colchester who is a visitor (but she is born Colchester)

In Olivia Ringers 1871 census she's working as a servant where the man of the house is called James - it is probably just a coincidence though

My great, great grandfather was illegitamate and have found his baptism which names his father - on his marriage certificate his father is correct first name and job, but with his (ergo his mother's) surname - all I imagine is when he was asked for father's name he said William - and they recorded the surname to match

[andrewalston]

Just a reminder that Monday 28th is a public holiday on the UK, so nobody will be working on your request until at least Tuesday.

Earliest time for it to hit your inbox will be Wednesday Australian time.

[Deb Clark Rennie]

Just a reminder that Monday 28th is a public holiday on the UK, so nobody will be working on your request until at least Tuesday.

Earliest time for it to hit your inbox will be Wednesday Australian time.

Oh drat :-) ahh well I've waited nearly two years to work her out I guess a few more days won't kill me.

Blessings
Deb