Author Topic: Mystery Woman from Essex  (Read 4614 times)

Offline Deb Clark Rennie

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Re: Mystery Woman from Essex
« Reply #27 on: Monday 28 May 18 02:18 BST (UK) »
I did find a Flora SMITH on the 1891 census aged 16 - so would suggest 1875 birth - born West Ham as a visitor with the Taylor family (which may indicate the age is guessed at) - and no corresponding Flora Smith birth - maybe she used her step fathers name

There is a Flora SMITH on the 1881 census in Colchester who is a visitor (but she is born Colchester)

In Olivia Ringers 1871 census she's working as a servant where the man of the house is called James - it is probably just a coincidence though

My great, great grandfather was illegitamate and have found his baptism which names his father - on his marriage certificate his father is correct first name and job, but with his (ergo his mother's) surname - all I imagine is when he was asked for father's name he said William - and they recorded the surname to match

Well that's a possibility ... Funnily enough my grandmothers first husband was a Taylor.  Where was the Taylor family living when she visited?

I've also taken a chance and written to another descendant of Richard and Lavinia Ringer parents of Olivia to see if there was any hereditary bleeding disorders in her Ringer family and explained my situation in trying to work out who Florence possibly Flora is.

And how wonderful that the father of your 2 x great grandfather was named ... that would make it easier but can understand back then why they felt the need to cover things up I bet they just didn't expect generations later we would come along and uncover all their secrets! 

I just seem to keep coming up against this in my family on both sides.  We also knew about my dads grandparents as that wasn't a secret only they never said who their fathers were.

My mums side it seems liked to keep their secrets covered.  I didn't find out until doing this that my other set of great grandparents Henry and Rose Fry (parents of Alfred who married Ethel Dolton) were first cousins!  I'm in touch with my mother's cousin who still lives in England and she had been researching for some years so she knew.  But she had been stumped by the grandfather of Rose and Henry a Richard Fry who married Sarah Elizabeth Stevens .. only thing was like my mystery woman there was no such person as Richard Fry until after the birth of his 4th child ... turned out he was born Richard Goffe illegitimate son of Martha Goffe and then up pops all his records and the baptisms of his first 3 sons .... then my cousin was looking at Henry Fry's enlistment papers and when it comes to writing down his wife's maiden name  (which is Fry like his as they are cousins) he writes it down as Gough! So they obviously were aware of the name change to Fry but no one knows why it was changed. 

My sister jokingly said well we are just all bastards aren't we!  As it seems to be an issue in both sides of my family ... thankfully my paternal grandmothers side are all pretty easy! 

Where's the who do you think you are team when you need them :-)

Blessings
Deb

Offline Kay99

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Re: Mystery Woman from Essex
« Reply #28 on: Monday 28 May 18 05:58 BST (UK) »
This was the Taylor family in 1891 with visiting Flora.   On the image Flora's birthplace was listed as West Ham  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL83-RW2

Kay

Offline Deb Clark Rennie

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Re: Mystery Woman from Essex
« Reply #29 on: Monday 28 May 18 06:16 BST (UK) »
This was the Taylor family in 1891 with visiting Flora.   On the image Flora's birthplace was listed as West Ham  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL83-RW2

Kay

Thank you Kay ... I'm having trouble opening it in family search it keeps coming up blank ... can you tell me who the Taylor's are and I will see if I can find it via searching family search?

Blessings
Deb

Offline Kay99

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Re: Mystery Woman from Essex
« Reply #30 on: Monday 28 May 18 06:30 BST (UK) »
Sorry - this is the family in 1891   - Living at 23 Sandal St, West Ham, West Ham, Essex.   Sophia's maiden name was Root -marriage 1877 West Ham

William Taylor 36  Carman b Fordham Essex
Sophia Taylor 39 b Halstead, Essex
Louisa Taylor 11
Maude Taylor 6
Sophia Taylor 2
Flora Smith 16  West Ham   Visitor

Kay

Added - In 1881 William is listed as born 1856 Colchester, Essex


Offline Deb Clark Rennie

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Re: Mystery Woman from Essex
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 29 May 18 02:46 BST (UK) »
Funnily enough I have only one Ringer family DNA match (distant match suggests 4 x great grandparents) and we've been in touch before but we couldn't connect any dots but out of curiosity I took a look at the James Robert Ringer Postman and sure enough he fits into her tree ... James Robert Ringer born 1858 descends from James Ringer 1832 his father was Robert Ringer 1781 and his father was James Ringer 1750.  My DNA match also descends from James Ringer 1750 but then via another son John Ringer and so on.

So that's rather interesting - I still can't  see a 14 year old postie fathering Florence but I suppose it's not impossible but he was not in West Ham.  I might see if Olivia's Ringer branch connects to this same family In any way.  But if that birth comes back with the same birth date as Florence well I will know it's her, hopefully only couple more days to wait.

Blessings
Deb

Offline Deb Clark Rennie

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Re: Mystery Woman from Essex
« Reply #32 on: Monday 04 June 18 13:09 BST (UK) »
Found her on the new birth index!
KINGER, FLORA  LAVINIA     
mother's maiden surname —
GRO Reference: 1872  M Quarter in WEST HAM UNION  Volume 04A  Page 30

Genius!

Ok results are in Flora Lavinia is the daughter if Olivia Ringer - birthday is out by a few days to that Florence Olivia but that is going by the 1839 cencus which says 16/12 1871 where as gro has it as
9/12/1871 .... too many coincidences do you think? Surely it has to be her and she’s altered her name to Florence Olivia ... no father mentioned so illigitimate as we thought.

Blessings
Deb
My fuzzy search on GRO for RINGER didn't pick up KINGER - but there she is.
In that case, ordering the birth certificate would at least give the mother's name.

Offline Deb Clark Rennie

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Re: Mystery Woman from Essex
« Reply #33 on: Monday 04 June 18 13:24 BST (UK) »
The address on the certificate looks like 3 browns Road West Ham - how can I see who was living at that address in 1871?

I might add Olivia Ringer in as her mother via my tree with a note that she is a good possibility and build upon that and see if at any point I get a DNA match.

Not so sure now about the James Ringer as being her father or just an invention or if he was just a relative?

Blessings
Deb

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Mystery Woman from Essex
« Reply #34 on: Monday 04 June 18 13:48 BST (UK) »
Francis James Aldis and family in 1871. He was born New Buckinham, Norfolk, similar to Florence's grandfather
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline MaureeninNY

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Re: Mystery Woman from Essex
« Reply #35 on: Monday 04 June 18 13:54 BST (UK) »
Francis J ALDIS was living with the RINGER family in 1851.

Maureen