Author Topic: Mary Bishop, daughter of Nicholas Bishop jnr.  (Read 1847 times)

Offline bkr188

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Mary Bishop, daughter of Nicholas Bishop jnr.
« on: Tuesday 05 June 18 08:32 BST (UK) »
This is a bit "long winded" - apologies.  Citing the Rolvenden Church Register in 1992 I found, Mary Bishop, the daughter of Nicholas Bishop as being baptized 3-12-1856.  (I shall call her Mary 1)  Her sister Elizabeth baptized 24-8-1858 and sister Albina baptized 14-8-1861.  So, I know this is correct as according to the church records.   Mary appears in the 1861 Census as a daughter aged 4 living with Nicholas and Fanny Bishop at Lowden Farm in Rolvenden.  In the 1871 Census there is a Mary Bishop, born in Rolvenden aged 14 as a pupil at a boarding school in Beckley, with the household head being John and a wife Clementine, who is also the Governess of Boarding.  1881 Census has Mary Bishop aged 24,  a grandchild of Harriet Bishop (mother of Nicholas was Harriet and widowed by this time) living with Harriet at Church Yard Rolvenden.  Then Mary Bishop, daughter of Nicholas, marries Harry Cockett in 1889 in Folkestone Kent and the 1891 Census has her living with said husband at Ivy House Rolvenden.  They have children and Mary dies in 1900 aged 43.  All seems very straight forward.  Nicholas married Fanny Hughes in 1854 - they supposedly had 3 daughters - Fanny died in 1866.  Nicholas then marries Fanny Mills in 1868 and they have 8 children. The 1st being daughters Fanny and Harriet Elizabeth and the others are all boys.  All documented and verified. 

Now the problem arises.  Rolvenden MI's entry no 218 has Fanny wife of Nicholas Bishop jnr of this parish died 7 June 1866 aged 32. Entry 218 goes on   
MARY DAUGHTER OF NICHOLAS BISHOP jnr. DIED 15 APRIL 1863 AGED 3years 11months

This implies Mary being born between 16 May 1859 and 15 April 1859, when Mary(1) born 1856 is also alive,
and the MI record has Fanny Hughes and 2nd Mary together impyling they are mother and daughter. This Mary(2) is not at their house in the 1861 Census nor at the house of Nicholas' parents.  I know Mary(1) record in the church record is correct (1856) because the register was in chronological order.
Harriet, mentioned in the 1881 Census, had 3 children and Nicholas was the only boy, so she did not have any other Bishop family grandchildren. (other grandchildren would have been Dunk) 

HELP!!!  Is one of the records incorrect, is one of the Mary's illegitimate or adopted?  Is there some sort of clue in MI inscription being so specific as to Marys (2) age?

I knew of a connection between the family Cockett and the family Bishop from a note I found about a photograph which said "Ethel Cockett, daughter of Polly Bishop (Cockett)" in 1950.  Is Polly Bishop the nickname for Mary (1)?  The people in the photo are well aged, probably 60ish. 
I cannot confirm this but I think I saw a probate list where a Mary had a will in 1886 and the estate was granted to Nicholas Bishop, as was Probate from the Estates of Albina and Elizabeth.
I am at a complete loss at this point and any help would be fantastic.  Thank you.           
Kent: Plane/Playne/Plain, Brakefield, Oliver, Wells, Mainwaring/Manwaring, Martin, Bishop, Mills, Richardson, Wenman, Holdstock
Bethnall Green: Oliver
London:  Smith,  Nickolay, Blackmore.
Canada: Terry
Switzerland: Kneuss, Bergernat
Goudhurst: Martin
Tipperary Ireland: Woods, Fisher,
County Clare Ireland: Maloney, Whalan, Kilmartin

Offline bearkat

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Re: Mary Bishop, daughter of Nicholas Bishop jnr.
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 05 June 18 11:15 BST (UK) »
Hi (again) bkr

Polly is a pet form of Mary.

In addition to the Mary baptised to Nicloas & Fanny in 1856 there is a Mary Morris Bishop daughter of  John & Kate bapstised 21st December 1857.  She might be worth investigating in the census.
Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD, DAGWELL, PARKER, WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING, BULL
Kent - BAYLY, BORER, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT, IDEN
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Herts - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
 All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline bkr188

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Re: Mary Bishop, daughter of Nicholas Bishop jnr.
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 05 June 18 13:40 BST (UK) »
Hello Bearkat,
Mary Morris Bishop is a twin daughter of John (1817 - 1902) who took his family off to New Zealand in 1860 and he is a son of Nicholas and Catherine Manwaring.  Her twin is Elizabeth Ayerst Bishop.  This Mary died in New Zealand in 1929 aged 72. All are descendants of Mary nee Plaine and Samuel Bishop.
 Your prompt now makes me wonder if there is another Mary whose parents maybe are dead and Nicholas is the guardian. 
One learns all the time.  Thank you.  Never knew about Polly being a pet name for Mary. 
Kent: Plane/Playne/Plain, Brakefield, Oliver, Wells, Mainwaring/Manwaring, Martin, Bishop, Mills, Richardson, Wenman, Holdstock
Bethnall Green: Oliver
London:  Smith,  Nickolay, Blackmore.
Canada: Terry
Switzerland: Kneuss, Bergernat
Goudhurst: Martin
Tipperary Ireland: Woods, Fisher,
County Clare Ireland: Maloney, Whalan, Kilmartin

Offline bkr188

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Re: Mary Bishop, daughter of Nicholas Bishop jnr.
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 21 July 18 16:57 BST (UK) »
Have been digging deeper into Mary Cockett nee Bishop and found she and Harry T Cockett had at least 3 children Herbert Henry born 26 March 1893, Mabel Elizabeth 1895 and Ethel Mary 1896.  Some family trees also have a Helen Bessie listed although I have not been able to find any firm evidence regarding her connection to this family.  In 1901 Herbert Henry and his sister Mabel Elizabeth are at school in Tenterden at 49 Bell Lane High Street.  Ethel Mary is the only child at home with her father Harry T Cockett and grandmother Sarah at the Post office in Rolvenden.  Ethel married William Harold Cheesman (born 1892) probably at the local church in Hackington, Kent 25 August 1924.  They had at least one child Pauline in 1927 who I think died in 1972.  I did see an entry for a Herbert Henry Cockett died in Whitechaple aged 20 in 1913 but looking for evidence to verify he is the correct one. 
Still looking for my original Mary Bishop from the Rolvenden MI's record.  At this point it seems to me to be a mistake.  Has anyone come across such a problem before with the MI's? 
Would be grateful if anyone has other information on this family of Cockett and Cheesman.
Thank you
bkr188   
Kent: Plane/Playne/Plain, Brakefield, Oliver, Wells, Mainwaring/Manwaring, Martin, Bishop, Mills, Richardson, Wenman, Holdstock
Bethnall Green: Oliver
London:  Smith,  Nickolay, Blackmore.
Canada: Terry
Switzerland: Kneuss, Bergernat
Goudhurst: Martin
Tipperary Ireland: Woods, Fisher,
County Clare Ireland: Maloney, Whalan, Kilmartin


Offline bearkat

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Re: Mary Bishop, daughter of Nicholas Bishop jnr.
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 21 July 18 17:40 BST (UK) »
Helen Bessie was buried next to the Bishops in Rolvenden churchyard. Coincidence or related??

https://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/Libr/MIs/MIsRolvenden/01.htm

203. Harriet wife of Thomas BISHOP of this parish died 7 August 1858 aged 46. Left surviving 4 sons and 3 daughters. Thomas, John, Charles, Philadelphia, Harriett, Samuel and Constance.

204. Samuel BISHOP of Wittersham in Kent, died 1 November 1859 aged 52.

205. Helen Bessie COCKETT born April 17 died September 30, 1891.
Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD, DAGWELL, PARKER, WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING, BULL
Kent - BAYLY, BORER, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT, IDEN
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Herts - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
 All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline bearkat

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Re: Mary Bishop, daughter of Nicholas Bishop jnr.
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 21 July 18 17:53 BST (UK) »
Here's a tree to investigate

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Cockett-140
Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD, DAGWELL, PARKER, WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING, BULL
Kent - BAYLY, BORER, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT, IDEN
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Herts - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
 All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline bkr188

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Re: Mary Bishop, daughter of Nicholas Bishop jnr.
« Reply #6 on: Monday 23 July 18 16:40 BST (UK) »
Helen Bessie was buried next to the Bishops in Rolvenden churchyard. Coincidence or related??

https://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/Libr/MIs/MIsRolvenden/01.htm

203. Harriet wife of Thomas BISHOP of this parish died 7 August 1858 aged 46. Left surviving 4 sons and 3 daughters. Thomas, John, Charles, Philadelphia, Harriett, Samuel and Constance.

204. Samuel BISHOP of Wittersham in Kent, died 1 November 1859 aged 52.

205. Helen Bessie COCKETT born April 17 died September 30, 1891.

Thank you bearkat.  The Bishops mentioned are descendants of Mary nee Plaine as is Nicholas.  I am tending towards the related rather than coincidence for Helen Bessie Cockett. She is possibly the 2nd child if Mary Cockett.  Have a bit more homework before I get this all figured out.
Kent: Plane/Playne/Plain, Brakefield, Oliver, Wells, Mainwaring/Manwaring, Martin, Bishop, Mills, Richardson, Wenman, Holdstock
Bethnall Green: Oliver
London:  Smith,  Nickolay, Blackmore.
Canada: Terry
Switzerland: Kneuss, Bergernat
Goudhurst: Martin
Tipperary Ireland: Woods, Fisher,
County Clare Ireland: Maloney, Whalan, Kilmartin

Offline bearkat

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Re: Mary Bishop, daughter of Nicholas Bishop jnr.
« Reply #7 on: Monday 10 June 19 10:28 BST (UK) »
Have you seen the graveyard plan at the bottom of the page?

https://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/research/monumental-inscriptions/rolvenden

those 3 graves are a group.

There is also another group of Bishop graves.
Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD, DAGWELL, PARKER, WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING, BULL
Kent - BAYLY, BORER, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT, IDEN
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Herts - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
 All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk