Author Topic: When you can't quite prove two people are one and the same...  (Read 5952 times)

Offline Mart 'n' Al

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Re: When you can't quite prove two people are one and the same...
« Reply #18 on: Friday 08 June 18 16:00 BST (UK) »
Coombs, yes, that is the man who may or not be the same one as in Hartlepool.  We can't tie him to the Hartlepool one to the satisfaction of part of the family.  It's odd, I've diligently logged every document and life event that we could find, and I feel it is inconclusive.   I am trying to apply the "Genealogical Proof Standard" in an unbiased way, and Electoral Rolls have been incomplete.  But...

After writing it as a narrative in my 14:36 post, I am starting to think that Scarborough appears too often for it to be two different men.  I look forward to hearing the views of others.  Not just views, but also opinions on:

1.  Did he desert Mary nee Boynton, or did he live a double life?  Why did she continue to describe herself as married?  Did she think he was lost at sea?  (No evidence found.)
2.  Why is he listed as deceased in 1915, when he didn't die for another six years?
3.  How/why did he avoid the 1871, 91 and 01 censuses?

Martin
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Names: Loughborough and Loughbrough, (London, Hull, Pirton and Hartlepool);
Watson, (Bedlington, Jarrow & H'pool);
Ballard & Glassop (E. London); 
Leggett (Corton, Scarborough, Hartlepool); 
Young & Wilson, (Hartlepool). 

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Offline Malcolm33

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Re: When you can't quite prove two people are one and the same...
« Reply #19 on: Friday 08 June 18 22:59 BST (UK) »
  This is all shaping up as a good mystery to solve, so I have called in the aid of another bloodhound.   Between us we have found many a missing census.

   People did tend at times to write off close relations that had upset them in one way or another and then went on record saying that their sibling was dead.    This has happened to my wife when her brother fibbed and even went off and joined the Foreign Legion.    Years ago I had a good friend, now deceased, who at times would say his sister was dead when she wasn't.  Such a flippant remark can be overheard and thought to be true.   Then remember Laurence Olivier in The Jazz Singer when he dramatically ripped his suit jacket and said his son (Neil Diamond) was dead.

    The main reason for missing census is a wrong transcription.   We have just had a case where a Benjamin Reed and his family were missing from the 1901 census.    By checking all the main family history census indices I found that he was there as named in UKcensus on line.    Eventually by trying a search by just the first name 'Benjamin' and other known details, such as age and district, I found him in Ancestry as 'BEED'.    FindMyPast was then found by somebody else where he was BIRD, and I got lucky on My Heritage where he was BERD.   Still not found on Family Search or FreeCen.

     So we'll have a crack at this for you and hopefully ........    especially since my parents retired and passed in a town we loved so much, - Scarborough.     Malcolm
Hutton: Eccleshill,Queensbury
Grant: Babworth,Chinley
Draffan: Lesmahagow,Douglas,Coylton, Consett
Oliver: Tanfield, Sunderland, Consett
Proudlock: Northumberland
Turnbull:Northumberland, Durham
Robson:Sunderland, Northumberland
Dent: Dufton, Arkengarthdale, Hunstanworth
Currie: Coylton
Morris and Hurst: East Retford, Blyth, Worksop
Elliot: Castleton, Hunstanworth, Consett
Tassie, Greenshields

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Offline Malcolm33

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Re: When you can't quite prove two people are one and the same...
« Reply #20 on: Friday 08 June 18 23:39 BST (UK) »
 Although you have him in the 1861 census, UKcensus on line also have him in the Crew Lists for that year.
Hutton: Eccleshill,Queensbury
Grant: Babworth,Chinley
Draffan: Lesmahagow,Douglas,Coylton, Consett
Oliver: Tanfield, Sunderland, Consett
Proudlock: Northumberland
Turnbull:Northumberland, Durham
Robson:Sunderland, Northumberland
Dent: Dufton, Arkengarthdale, Hunstanworth
Currie: Coylton
Morris and Hurst: East Retford, Blyth, Worksop
Elliot: Castleton, Hunstanworth, Consett
Tassie, Greenshields

Offline Mart 'n' Al

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Re: When you can't quite prove two people are one and the same...
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 09 June 18 00:02 BST (UK) »
Malcolm, using my subscription to The Genealogist, I can only see a 26 year old George Leggett,  a boatswain from Poole, Dorset. Is that the one to which you refer?

Martin
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FT-DNA Kit B388093

Names: Loughborough and Loughbrough, (London, Hull, Pirton and Hartlepool);
Watson, (Bedlington, Jarrow & H'pool);
Ballard & Glassop (E. London); 
Leggett (Corton, Scarborough, Hartlepool); 
Young & Wilson, (Hartlepool). 

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Offline Malcolm33

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Re: When you can't quite prove two people are one and the same...
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 09 June 18 00:32 BST (UK) »
Malcolm, using my subscription to The Genealogist, I can only see a 26 year old George Leggett,  a boatswain from Poole, Dorset. Is that the one to which you refer?

Martin

UK Census on Line only has the bare minimum - George  Leggett    Crew List 1861  https://www.ukcensusonline.com/search/index.php?sn=leggett&fn=george&kw=&phonetic_mode=1&event=1861&source_title=Crew+Lists+1861+Census&year=0&range=0&token=zqJXvULo2vya-qp9cQ2Fy1zB_LWQZ41bEhg02mqrle4&search=Search

    There are a couple of Family Trees for him on My Heritage and am looking through these at present.   Then there is one on Family Search which has his mother as Mary Farman which sounds a bit like Garnham, so must look at these names more closely.    Did you have his death - Feb 25 1921 in Hartlepool?
Hutton: Eccleshill,Queensbury
Grant: Babworth,Chinley
Draffan: Lesmahagow,Douglas,Coylton, Consett
Oliver: Tanfield, Sunderland, Consett
Proudlock: Northumberland
Turnbull:Northumberland, Durham
Robson:Sunderland, Northumberland
Dent: Dufton, Arkengarthdale, Hunstanworth
Currie: Coylton
Morris and Hurst: East Retford, Blyth, Worksop
Elliot: Castleton, Hunstanworth, Consett
Tassie, Greenshields

Offline Malcolm33

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Re: When you can't quite prove two people are one and the same...
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 09 June 18 00:41 BST (UK) »
I think this could be his Obit.

Day after his death and in the Hartlepool paper:

Hartlepool Northern Daily Mail   
 
 

 PUBLIC NOTICES 
 

... illness, Elizabeth Jane (Jennie), beloved wife of J. A. Kuburn. 12, Warrm- street.—lnterment lueeday LEGGETT.—On the iast.. School House, Listex-sUMt, Leggett, age years ate of Scarborough).—Cortegs leave above address 1-46 Monday. MCDONALD.—On 23rd inst. ...
 
Published: Saturday 26 February 1921 
Newspaper: Hartlepool Northern Daily Mail 
County: Durham, England 

I don't have a subscription to British Newspaper Archives but this will be in Find My Past.   If you don't subscribe to either I'll ask fellow bloodhound to have a look.

Hutton: Eccleshill,Queensbury
Grant: Babworth,Chinley
Draffan: Lesmahagow,Douglas,Coylton, Consett
Oliver: Tanfield, Sunderland, Consett
Proudlock: Northumberland
Turnbull:Northumberland, Durham
Robson:Sunderland, Northumberland
Dent: Dufton, Arkengarthdale, Hunstanworth
Currie: Coylton
Morris and Hurst: East Retford, Blyth, Worksop
Elliot: Castleton, Hunstanworth, Consett
Tassie, Greenshields

Offline Jomot

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Re: When you can't quite prove two people are one and the same...
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 09 June 18 03:30 BST (UK) »
This is the full notice:

LEGGETT.—On the 25th inst. at School House, Lister-Street, George Leggett, age 84 years (late of Scarborough).—Cortege to leave above address 1-45 Monday.

GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham. MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  JACKSON: East Yorks, North Yorks, Durham. TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Jomot

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Re: When you can't quite prove two people are one and the same...
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 09 June 18 04:11 BST (UK) »
The 1920 electoral registers for Hartlepool show the following:

14 Milton Road, Hartlepool - LEGGETT, Jane, Ernest Victor & George Daniel

Schools Cottage - LEGGETT, George Daniel
GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham. MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  JACKSON: East Yorks, North Yorks, Durham. TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Malcolm33

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Re: When you can't quite prove two people are one and the same...
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 09 June 18 06:46 BST (UK) »
    I don't think there is any doubt now about George Daniel Leggett of Corton Suffolk being one and the same as he who died in Hartlepool in 1921, described as 'late of Scarborough' and age 84 which agrees with birth year of 1837.

    The 1871 census for his wife Mary and children in Scarborough has Geo B Leggett born Scarborough age 4 months and this agrees with the birth registration -

Births Dec 1870
Legget  George Boynton    Scarbro'  9d 324

     She was still around in 1881 because she appears in UKCensus on Line (below), but when I enter the very same details in My Heritage I get 'No Results'.   This then must be a case of a bad transcription and this could explain why George doesn't appear either in the missing census years

Mary  Leggett  47  Fisherman's Wife  Yorkshire  1834  Scarbro, Yorkshire 
Mary J  Leggett  13  Scholar  Yorkshire  1868  Scarbro, Yorkshire 

      I don't like any missing pieces so will continue search for the other census's and friend is looking through all other newspaper reports.    Malcolm
Hutton: Eccleshill,Queensbury
Grant: Babworth,Chinley
Draffan: Lesmahagow,Douglas,Coylton, Consett
Oliver: Tanfield, Sunderland, Consett
Proudlock: Northumberland
Turnbull:Northumberland, Durham
Robson:Sunderland, Northumberland
Dent: Dufton, Arkengarthdale, Hunstanworth
Currie: Coylton
Morris and Hurst: East Retford, Blyth, Worksop
Elliot: Castleton, Hunstanworth, Consett
Tassie, Greenshields