Author Topic: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London  (Read 1731 times)

Online keyboard86

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Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 18:59 BST (UK) »
Hi isobel, yes spotted that, but what is the connection with Mary Ann and Martha both being shown as born Redruth in 1871 census ( If correct ) and  Martha in 1881 census?
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Online keyboard86

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Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 19:55 BST (UK) »
Hi again, two possible deaths:-

Harriett A Fisher Dec qtr 1915 St Olave aged 73
Henry Fisher March qtr 1917 St Olave aged 80
Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline osprey

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Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 20:27 BST (UK) »
Parish entry for the 1865 marriage, registered Penzance, took place in St Erth

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m64/

In the 1871 census in St Erth, one of the marriage witnesses, Edwin Roscorla, has a lodger with his family, 44 year old Grace Fisher, a married laundress born St Erth. So who is the Grace with Henry in the 1871 census?
She's in the workhouse in Illogan in 1901 age 78 so likely death reg for her
Grace Fisher 77 dec qtr 1901 Redruth vol 5c pg 138

As Grace is shown as 34 in 1861 and 44 in 1871, is it likely that she is the mother of the children born in 1876 & 1877? It would be interesting to see who registered the children, in case Henry gave maiden name as of Grace to cover up for lack of marriage.

Henry is shown as a widower on the marriage cert so there should be another marriage to find.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline isobelw

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Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 21:34 BST (UK) »
Grace said she was 34 when she married yet in 1871 the ‘Grace’ with Harry is 25 matching the age of Harriet in later census. I suspect that although she was calling herself Grace it was actually Harriet who was living with Harry in 1871. The fact that Grace appears to be elsewhere would bear this out.
Isobel
Clotworthy, McMahon, Saunderson, Culley (Ireland & Scotland)
Weatherall, Greer (Ireland & Scotland)
Hamilton, Johnston, Dawson, Rennie, Wright (Clackmannanshire)

Online keyboard86

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Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 21:48 BST (UK) »
 :) Possible yes, but why if correct would the births be registered in Surrey, but on census for Mary Ann/Martha born Redruth?
Keyboard86

EDIT Just a thought, as Harriet shows Redruth in 1911 and Penzance 1901, maybe they "switched" the birth places of Mother and child?
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline osprey

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Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 22:53 BST (UK) »
I've been trying to trace Grace in Cornwall. No Grace Swine or variant showing in 1841 or 1851 census. I can find a marriage for John Swaine in the right area, he married Grace Ellis 5 Nov 1826 in St Erth. Grace Swaine was buried 13 Dec 1834 in Camborne, aged 29, died of consumption. Age at death suggests the baptism of Grace Ellis, daughter of Robert & Grace 16 March 1806 in St Erth.

1841 census Hayle Foundry HO107/144/1 folio 9 pg 9
Robt Ellis 60 ag lab
Grace 60
Grace 15
I can't see a baptism for 15 year old Grace but it's possible she's the daughter of Grace Ellis & John Swaine born before their marriage. John remarried in 1835 in Camborne and had more family with second wife Elizabeth.


1851 census has Grace Ellis 25 b. St Erth in the workhouse in Illogan HO107/1915 folio 656 pg 12. The next line on the census is 2 year old Harriet Ellis b. Illogan.

Birth reg Harriet Ellis march qtr 1849 Redruth vol 9 pg 299 no mother's maiden name.
I haven't as yet found this Harriet later on...
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline CelticMom

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Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 23:06 BST (UK) »
It's confusing isn't it?

I do wonder now if the Grace in 1871 with Harry is like you say not Grace at all, but Harriett, especially if Grace is showing in Cornwall in 1871.

I've found Grace back in cornwall in 1881, 1891 and 1901 and her age makes her a lot older. But still odd that the births of the children are mixed up between both mother's.

As far as I can tell all children were registered in Bermondsey/St Olave Southwark, none in Cornwall.

There definitely seems to be some odd stuff going on, as Harriett, majority of the time gives her place as birth as Surrey on the census, except for once when she in the workhouse in 1900s she gives her place of birth as Cornwall. It definitely appears she was born 1842/1843.

So Harry married before Grace? I didn't notice the widow part. He definitely doesn't appear to of married Harriett.

Then there is all the confusing stuff with daughter Catherine too and being with Benjamin Brett, but appearing to not actually marry him, then reverting back to Fisher and ended up in the workhouse too with her parents, and continuing to have children even though she is destitute, before finally getting out and marrying Charles Powell.

I was convinced Martha's husband Daniel Brett was the brother of Benjamin, but he doesn't appear to be.

I will look at some of the other stuff you have posted when kids are in bed later.

There is the Grace Mitchell to look into too, who Grace Fisher (nee Swine) is with in 1861 and is shown as her grandmother.

Anderson & Marr - Midlothian & East Lothian
Bennett - Devonport
Catleugh & Shiells - East Lothian
Cullen & Dowling - Waterford, Ireland
Littlejohns - Plymouth & London
Mansfield - Benfleet & St Pancras
Michelin - London
Newlands - Midlothian & Fife
Paterson - Canongate, Midlothian
Paulin - Northumberland
Rutherford - Roxburghshire
Taylor - East Lothian & Berwickshire
Thomson - Leith & Muthill
Thorney - Herefordshire
Small - Northumberland
Varrall - Kent

Online keyboard86

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Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 23:10 BST (UK) »
Harriet/Harriett gives Cornwall twice, 1901/1911, the 1851 Harriet Ellis could be the H E aged 11 b Illogan occ Scholar RG09/1582/141/8?
Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline CelticMom

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Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 23:15 BST (UK) »
Hi again, two possible deaths:-

Harriett A Fisher Dec qtr 1915 St Olave aged 73
Henry Fisher March qtr 1917 St Olave aged 80
Keyboard86

thank you, that definitely looks like it might be them. 
Anderson & Marr - Midlothian & East Lothian
Bennett - Devonport
Catleugh & Shiells - East Lothian
Cullen & Dowling - Waterford, Ireland
Littlejohns - Plymouth & London
Mansfield - Benfleet & St Pancras
Michelin - London
Newlands - Midlothian & Fife
Paterson - Canongate, Midlothian
Paulin - Northumberland
Rutherford - Roxburghshire
Taylor - East Lothian & Berwickshire
Thomson - Leith & Muthill
Thorney - Herefordshire
Small - Northumberland
Varrall - Kent