Author Topic: Identifying two COATS OF ARMS (wax seals) on painting  (Read 608 times)

Offline ?an Koprivnik

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Identifying two COATS OF ARMS (wax seals) on painting
« on: Thursday 14 June 18 11:36 BST (UK) »
Hello, I am new to this forum but I hope someone might help me out with my search. I want to identify two wax seals - coats that are pressed on an old painting. Presumably the painting is of Mary Stuart but there is no identification to prove that statement - perhaps it can still be of assistance in determining the coat of arms or even some hint on what I should be looking at, both have a crown on top, the first is a R with a crown and the second one looks like a veil or stripe diagonally with a thick line with three triangles/bells?

The painting, if original, dates to around 1550-1570.

Every hint will be much appreciated.

Thanks!

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Offline ?an Koprivnik

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Re: Identifying two COATS OF ARMS (wax seals) on painting
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 14 June 18 12:25 BST (UK) »
I have discovered something that might be a good starting point for someone here who might know more about the Scottish royal crests. The pole with three triangles (very bluntly described as I don't know what it respresents) is part of the coat of arms of Mary of Guise, wife of King James V, mother of  Mary, king of Scots. Could this be her crest or somehow connected to her or her lineage?


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Offline ?an Koprivnik

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Identifying two COATS OF ARMS (wax seals) on painting
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 14 June 18 12:55 BST (UK) »
I have discovered something that might be a good starting point for someone here who might know more about the Scottish royal crests. The pole with three triangles (very bluntly described as I don't know what it respresents) is part of the coat of arms of Mary of Guise, wife of King James V, mother of  Mary, king of Scots. Could this be her crest or somehow connected to her or her lineage?

Possibly this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Label_(heraldry)

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Identifying two COATS OF ARMS (wax seals) on painting
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 14 June 18 13:11 BST (UK) »
Looks like the coronet of a viscount!

Skoosh.

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Identifying two COATS OF ARMS (wax seals) on painting
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 14 June 18 16:03 BST (UK) »
The left-hand side (as we look at it) are the arms of her husband Louis II, as the Duke of Longueville.
(Duc de Longeville & comte de Dunois)

The right-hand side is the arms of her family, the Dukes of Guise.
They were a cadet branch of the House of Lorraine - and the arms  are those of Lorraine-Vaudémont.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counts_and_dukes_of_Guise#/media/File:Armoiries_Lorraine-Vaud%C3%A9mont.png
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline ?an Koprivnik

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Re: Identifying two COATS OF ARMS (wax seals) on painting
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 14 June 18 16:51 BST (UK) »
Thank you everyone for the clues and explanations. The second post with the crests image seems a bit misleading from my side as I am not interested in that crest, I just posted it in possible regards to the top wax embossed coats of arms (insignias) in the first post. Do you perhaps know anything about those as well, KGarrad? I am very grateful for your help.

Zan

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Identifying two COATS OF ARMS (wax seals) on painting
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 14 June 18 22:57 BST (UK) »
The problem here is that all the heraldry appears to be French.

The first seal (that with the "R") is simply a badge or a simple seal.
The second seal appears to show a bend (a diagonal bar) wavy - almost unheard of in English heraldry.
But the Wallop family uses it?  Argent, a bend wavy sable--WALLOP(anciently WELHOP), Hants.
Superimposed is a label of 3 points. This usually denotes an elder son.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)