Are Josina and Judoca interchangeable in Zeeland/Flanders?

[Rakiura John]

Absolutely!

[Rakiura John]

I see many other entries mention "weezen", which Google translates as "refuse", so I suspect it might be a religious thing - the priest recording how many times the dying person refused to repent for sins or convert or something like that.

[TreeSpirit]

Refuse?  Maybe if the word was "afwijzen" (past tense afwezen)?

some general meanings:
orphan (noun) = wees (singular), wezen (pl)
being (noun) = wezen (singular)
past tense of to point (verb) = wees (singular), wezen (plural)

Note: old fashioned spelling is weezen (with 2 e's)

FYI An 1801 dictionary:
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=t48NAAAAQAAJ&q=wees+weezen#v=snippet&q=wees%20weezen&f=false (see p974 and p975)

[Rakiura John]

Tree Spirit
Just in case my responses caused confusion, my reply of "Absolutely" was in response to your "BTW are you interested in a suggestion for his parents?"...

[TreeSpirit]

I was hoping to get some feedback re the translation of “weeze(n)” first, but unfortunately this doesn’t seem to be happening  …. 
Additionally I'd like to hear your view re Josephus = Philippus Josephus as well...



Philippus Maes was born in St. Nicolaas according to his 1754 and 1760 marriages.
From the “Klapper op dopen E-U, 1598-1797” voor Sint-Niklaas (Osst Vlaanderen) we get 3-4 strong possibilities for his baptisms.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C3MM-N9DV-7?i=128&cat=58285

Cross Matching Effort #1
Anna Maria Willaart had been married to an Andries Maes. Was he related?  He was born in St Gillis. There seem to be 3 Sint-Gillis in Belgium. Two of them have nothing useful, but there were 2 possible baptisms in Sint-Gilles-Waas (between Hulst and Sint-Niklaas).
One on image#154 (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSBY-TQWX-J?i=153&cat=10289 ) and one on image#150. However, neither of them seem to match up with the baptisms for Philippus.

Cross Matching Effort #2
The other Maes was Isabella Maes who’d been a witness for Isabella Francisca Maes born/bap 07-09-1755. There were are few Isabella Maes in Hulst, but only one who was born in Sint-Niklaas.
In 1756 this lady marries Nicolaas de Bakker. A Nicolas de Backer is a witness for Maria Judoca Maes born/bap 21-08-1761. Note: his death happens to be on the same page as Philippus’.
In 1774 Isabella marries Augustinus Weemaas. An Augustinus Wemans is a witness for Augustinus Amen born/bap 05-07-1777.
There are a number of baptism possibilities voor Isabella in Sint-Niklaas: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C3MM-N985-3?i=112&cat=58285

Only one matches with Philippus i.e. where the parents are Josephus Meas X Maria Van craenenbroek ( of course everything could be circumstantial)


I did some further googling with the above data:
- https://www.geni.com/people/Josephus-Maes/6000000020275337147 shows some more of this Sint-Niklaas family (of course this still needs to be checked).
- http://www.joopmaas.nl/?page_id=20 discusses the relatives of Andries Maes and mentions that Anna’s second husband was born in 1726 ….

[Rakiura John]

Tree Spirit

Thank you for your further suggestions. Much appreciated. You've put me on to a Belgium resource I hadn't found. I'll work through your info and come back.

The name Van craenenbroek rung a bell – a Petrus Van Craenenbroek was a witness to the baptism of Philippus' son Joannes Nepsmucenus Maes, bap 27 Feb 1760, Hulst (RK) - probably that child who died a few days later on 1 Mar 1760, Hulst (NH) “kind van Philip Maas”, with the mother Anna Maria Willaarts then dying on 9 Mar 1760.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89QV-3N1B?i=1034&wc=MCLP-76D%3A345031601%2C345153101%2C954351401&cc=2036997

It's clear to me now that Weezen = orphans. The Hulst RK Burial entries recording just 1 use Wees or Weeze, entries recording plural use Weezen. Perhaps noting orphans in the Register was part of the system to ensure steps were taken to deal with them. An occasional entry shows “0 Weeze” (e.g. #97 Image 142, and #8 Image 146) – which at first glance seems pointless, but perhaps this was done to indicate that although the death resulted in a parentless child/children, steps needn't be taken in that instance (kids taken in by other family etc).

I agree that Josephus = Philippus Joseph. The marriage record has Elisabeth Noordman marrying “Joseph”, and the 1846 death of Elisabeth Noordman's husband is in the name of “Philippus Joseph”, his age being 67 years 7 months 16 days which puts him close to the 1778 baptism of “Philippus Joseph”. The groom signed the marriage record as “Joseph Amen” which shows he went by that forename rather than Philippus.

[TreeSpirit]

And because Joannes Nepsmucenus Maes dies young, "Petrus van Cranebroek" appears to gets a a second chance to be a "peter" when Joanna Jacoba Maes is baptised 05-05-1767 ...

BTW a "klapper" is only an index (albeit an old one) and not a primary source ... Therefore it is still worthwhile having a look at the actual baptisms if available.

[Rakiura John]

Tree Spirit. I've had a good hunt around the actual records but haven't found anything to definitively connect my Philippus to Josephus Maes & Maria van Creanenbroek. It would have been great to at least find something to indicate my Philippus was a “Philippus Jacobus” - the name recorded in that 1726 baptism.

As for Isabella Maas - being born in Sint Niklaas, married to Nicolaas de Bakker & Augustinus Weemans who were both bap witnesses to Phillipus' family, all strongly suggest she is my Phillipus' sister. I found her burial in Sint-Gillis-Waas in 1792 [“Isabella Francisca Maes, vrouw of Augustinus Weemaes”], but that record doesn't give any further info. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSBY-TS82-D?i=656&cat=10289
There seems a definite trend among this family to name a child after its baptism witness (rather than follow the grandparent-naming custom), and with this confirmation that Isabella (wife of de Bakker & Weemaes) was “Isabella Francisca”, it makes it even more likely that she was the Isabella Maes who witnessed the 1755 baptism of Philippus' first daughter (who was named Isabella Francisca).

Strange though that my Philippus seems to have dropped his baptismal “Jacobus”, and Isabella (baptism recorded as just “Isabella”) seems to have gained a “Francisca”.

That Tree on geni.com appears to be on the right track –
the 1720 marriage of Josephus Maes & Maria van Creanenbroek gives the witnesses as Petrus Maes and Joannes Baptist Maes (Josephus' brothers per that geni tree)
the 1722 baptism of Isabella Maes, dau of Josephus Maes & Maria van Creanenbroek, gives the witnesses as Jacobus Creanenbroek & Elisabeth de Jonge (Maria's brother and mother per that geni tree);
the 1726 baptism of Philippus Jacobus Maes, son of Josephus Maes & Maria van Creanenbroek, gives the witnesses as Philippus Jacobus de Wolf & Isabella [Brarh] (witnesses unknown; but another example of child having same name as a witness).

Anyway I'll keep plodding on. Glad to have had your help.
regards