Author Topic: Goll Family from Germany - Need Help with Records  (Read 3539 times)

Offline Tara-Leigh

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Re: Goll Family from Germany - Need Help with Records
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 20 June 18 07:07 BST (UK) »
Blimey...you are all fabulous! Yes this them...I'm just about in tears!
I don't know how to print what you've sent me from my iPad cause I'm so flustered with the information...lol...

The funny thing is we knew Walburga had the two boys but what I don't get are their names are the same...????  I have a place to go to now thank you for your help this is great...

I will keep you posted with what I find...

You are all so good with all this stuff ...
This has been a 50 year mystery...
😂😂😂

Offline garstonite

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Re: Goll Family from Germany - Need Help with Records
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 20 June 18 07:16 BST (UK) »
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline Tara-Leigh

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Re: Goll Family from Germany - Need Help with Records
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 20 June 18 07:43 BST (UK) »
It doesn't appear so...my walburger was born 1860...also she never married the 2 boys were born out of wedlock.

Thanks again...I've just started tracking the info you all have given and I'm already gathering correct info. For example I had the boys names as johann georg (my great grandfather) and his brother as Otto G. Goll...when I added the name George as the middle name I find connections...huge help and again great find!!!!

Offline Rena

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Re: Goll Family from Germany - Need Help with Records
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 20 June 18 19:33 BST (UK) »
This webpage explains why Munchen is mentioned in the documentation you have.  It is an archdiocese overseeing many subsidiary diocese - one of the latter being where your ancestors lived:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Archdiocese_of_Munich_and_Freising


If the 1860 birth/baptism of Walburga Goll is correct, then this is the marriage and birth details of her parents.

Deutschland, Bayern, Bistum Augsburg, katholische Kirchenbücher, 1615-1939
Name:   Joseph Goll
Event Type:   Marriage
Event Date:   4 Mar 1851
Event Place:   Kellmünz, Kellmünz an der Iller, Neu-Ulm, Schwaben, Bayern, Deutschland
Gender:   Male
Birth Date:   11 Jan 1817
Father's Name:   Christoph Goll
Mother's Name:   Franziska Fackler
Spouse's Name:   Agnes Prestele
Spouse's Gender:   Female
Spouse's Birth Date:   19 Jan 1822
Spouse's Father's Name:   Seraphin Prestele
Spouse's Mother's Name:   Theres Doerger

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP4B-CBXP

As the book goes back to the 1600s there could be more records of all the different surname providing the families hadn't travelled from another part of the land. 

These details are also on the same familysearch film and I see there were more than two babies born to that couple. If you would like to see and take a copy of the filmed pages of the original Munchen RC church book, then you need to visit your local Morman Church family History Centre (the Church of Latter Day Saints).

The shrunk url link:    http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m8j/

My family are Ev. Lutheran and I'm used to seeing names and occupations of sponsors/witnesses in the church books - some witnesses are relatives and others are people of importance in the community. These people's given names are usually donated to the baby, with the baby's own given name being the one listed next to its surname.  For instance my own gf given name was Herman but was baptised with two donated names: recorded as Franz Jacob Herman.  VERY awkward in early years when searching records for Herman but search facilities only searched for the first name of Franz
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke


Offline Tara-Leigh

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Re: Goll Family from Germany - Need Help with Records
« Reply #13 on: Friday 22 June 18 00:45 BST (UK) »
Rena
Again I am blown away with the wealth of information you and others are able to retrieve.  I can't thank you enough.

With this latest information I do have some questions....if what you say is true and I understand you correctly.  If my german ancestors were given these additional or what we call here in America "baptismal" names, if I don't know what they are I could be searching forever?

For example my great grandfathers name was Johann Georg Goll ~ he always went be Georg or George here in the states.  If he was given two other names and all his German records are under those names I don't know of I might never find additional records true?

Also, I was given a lead about a carpenter family in Bad Kissingen that just celebrated their 100th year.  They list Andreas Goll and Albin Goll as the, I guess 2nd and 3rd generation owners.  Is there a way to find out if they are related to my great grandfather as he too was a carpenter in Bad Kissingen.

When I went on the LDS site I'm only able to see the family tree info not the documents.  I will have to plan a trip to visit a family center to view the documents at some time in the near future.  Until then is there a "free" site to view documents in German.  My mother is with me and she can read and write german.  This branch is her direct lineage.

Again thank you so much and look forward to anything else you might come across.  Just wondering about the Koberlein's? Anything on that side regarding the 5 sisters and going back from there?

Tara

Offline Tara-Leigh

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Re: Goll Family from Germany - Need Help with Records
« Reply #14 on: Friday 22 June 18 00:54 BST (UK) »
Rena
I just went to the LDS link...I see what you mean about the other children and the witnesses.  I counted at least 6 children if I read the list correctly.  It's also interesting because my grandmother her name was Theresa and I see one of the witnesses was also named that. She was born in Munich in 1913.

Now her sister my great aunt was born Louise S. Goll b. 1911 in Bad Kissingen is there anyway to find out her information I believe the actual spelling of her name was Luise S. and I just wonder if the S. stands for Seraphin or some variation of that.  She never told anyone her middle name.

Also, if the children were born out of wedlock, would the Archdiocese still record their births? For Johann Georg Goll and Otto George Goll? I also note that Luise and Theresa Goll were also born out of wedlock even though their parents eventually married in 1921.

All very exciting and interesting.

Many thanks
Tara

Offline Rena

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Re: Goll Family from Germany - Need Help with Records
« Reply #15 on: Friday 22 June 18 13:06 BST (UK) »
Genealogy in Germany is a money earner for the country and you won't find many online databases, which is understandable as it brings in money for the countries archives and wages to professional genealogists.  I found my ancestors by directly applying to the church archives and from then on I viewed micro fiche in my local Morman church in England at a very low cost.  i was lucky that WWII hadn't destroyed 19th century property and people count = their census - so I was able to track my family in Hannover every year from 1851.  Unfortunately I have not been able to find mention of any such records for your area of interest, which suggests there might not be any..

One old custom was that family names were carried over to the next generation and this might be the case for your ancestors.  This was particularly true if the family were in the farming industry and the farm was handed down, so you might find that a husband of a farm heiress changed his surname to that of his bride. 

    The first son was named after the father's father
    The second son was named after the mother's father
    The third son was named after the father
    The fourth son was named after the father's eldest brother
    The first daughter after the mother's mother
    The second daughter after the father's mother
    The third daughter after the mother
    The fourth daughter after the mother's eldest sister

  because my ancestor followed this custom I notified the German archivist of my ancestor's birth year & that his parents could be Henry and Sophia, which turned out to be the case; additionally the less time an archivist searches for information the cheaper it is on your pocket.

I thought my ancestor was the oldest child as he was born during the first year of his parents marriage, but like you, discovered there was another handful born to the same parents out of wedlock but who lived with their maternal grandparents.   From the census it seemed the parents lived in accommodation provided for single people.  My understanding is that this wasn't uncommon and probably had something to do with marrying when a family house became available.

The Catholic church will have all the information whether the child was baptised in or out of wedlock. The Catholic churches also recorded "confirmations". I have some parents who lived in a Lutheren parish, had their children baptised in the Lutheren church, then seemed to have saved up to make a long journey to the catholic Hildesheim church where they had five children confirmed at the same time, the oldest child was 10, the youngest one year old.  The Catholic archivist informed me that this was a usual occurrence - e.g. the Catholic church allowed this if the father worked in a Lutheran parish.

I suggest you try to find other people researching the same lines and you might get lucky by viewing the German GEDBAS website - on the webpage simply fill in the surname, or even just fill in the place they lived which will give umpteen surnames living in the same village/town, and view the results.   Here is a meta-engine search facility for you to play around with which brings up several websites : 
Click on GEDBAS then Enter your surname and/or village
You could also try "Auswanderer" search results.
http://meta.genealogy.net/

I see there is a micro fiche of migration of auswanderen fro your area of interest:   When a person wanted to migrate they had to ask the town elders.  Their names would be written up on the civic centre/town hall door for about three weeks which gave a chance for anyone else in the neighbourhood to come forward and state why the person shouldn't be allowed tomigrate, e.g. he owes me money, or (s)he is my apprentice and not allowed to leave.   The information on the official documents usually gives name of the main applicant and his/her abode plus names of accompanying family members and their relationship with the applicant.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/1135289?availability=Family%20History%20Library

I haven't done any German research for well over a decade and am not knowledgeable about modern sources. Hopefully other rootschatters will come along and provide more sources of information for you.
 
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline Tara-Leigh

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Re: Goll Family from Germany - Need Help with Records
« Reply #16 on: Friday 22 June 18 23:09 BST (UK) »
Wow! This explains how I could have original documents and was never able to locate anything.  Again thanks for the information you have retrieved.  Guess I'm going to have to make a trip to the mormen temple here. 

Well at least I've gotten further with your assistance and thanks for the additional information.  It has been extremely helpful!

Happy searches and again a ton of thanks!