Author Topic: What was a Chrisom?  (Read 3875 times)

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What was a Chrisom?
« Reply #18 on: Friday 22 June 18 17:08 BST (UK) »
The following information is from  "Catholic Encyclopaedia"
www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm#xvi

Ceremonies of baptism:
After the child's head has been annointed with chrism a white veil is put on the infant's head with the words "Receive this white garment, which mayest thou carry without stain before the judgement seat of Our Lord Jesus Christ, that thou mayest have eternal life. Amen."

Holy Oils:
The oils used at baptism are oil of catechumens (olive oil) and chrism (mixture of balsam & oil). The oils are consecrated by the bishop during Holy Week.

Baptismal robe:
Newly baptised people in the primitive church wore a white robe for a certain period after the ceremonies. Baptisms usually took place on the eves of Easter or Pentecost and white garments became associated with these festivals. English name for Pentecost, Whitsunday/Whitsuntide is derived from the white garments worn by newly baptised. A white veil is placed momentarily on the head of the catechumen as a substitute for the baptismal robe in the modern baptism ritual.

                                      ************************

Burial in the chrisom cloth may have been a physical sign that the deceased was without sin ("without stain before the judgement seat") and would go straight to Heaven.
Catechumen is a candidate for baptism.


Cowban

Offline Viktoria

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,957
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What was a Chrisom?
« Reply #19 on: Friday 22 June 18 23:07 BST (UK) »
I hope I have not given the idea that I dispute the detailed information given by RootsChatters.
All I can say is what I remember and how enraged I was,especially remembering the words of the marriage service a little over a year previously.
My mother in law really would not let me in her house until I was Churched.
It was superstition ,not religion,but where the leaflet I read from  came I  cannot say.
This was 1957 and other young women must have had the same form as they too remember how angry and embarrassed they were.
The Rector was a lovely man,he married us and Baptised our first two babies.When we went to ask him to baptise our second and I had not been
Churched ,he did not mention it ,thankfully,as I would have refused.
M in L. did not not either.
She was very kind to me but her religion was full of old fashioned superstition.
She gave her children very high standards.
It was funny really as she truly believed babies did not thrive until they had been Baptised,my first gained a pound the first week.
I dared not tell her,she would not have believed it.
You know how new babies give the impression they are ravenous.
Thanks for all the interesting info,I knew some but by no means all.
                 
                                            Viktoria.

.




Offline Westy11

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,770
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What was a Chrisom?
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 23 June 18 02:18 BST (UK) »
Viktoria's post reminded me, and i am no theologian so no authoritive source; but from what I understand some of the beliefs of Christians originates out of non Christian tradition.  A number of aspects and dare I say beliefs have a foundation [as i understand it] in superstition.

Wasn't it King Constantine that melded Christianity and other forms of religion into the accepted form of Christianity?

As a child growing up in Australia, a country that has a clear delineation between Church and State, and in a form of fundamentalist Catholicism, it certainly seems to me that a number of aspects have a basis in superstition. Also i read that humans have a superstitious streak that is a left over from early man. 

If all this is the case its very easy to see why Viktoria's mother-in-law held superstitious beliefs.  It may well be that some of the religious folk from whom she learned her religious beliefs may well have had a differing opinion as to the role of Churching despite what others hold true; after all religion is a matter of faith.

Westy 


Offline Viktoria

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,957
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What was a Chrisom?
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 23 June 18 09:00 BST (UK) »
Yes,even the date for Christmas was linked to pagan festivals,the Yule log
Which is now,or was connected to Christmas was a pagan ritual as is the use of holly and mistletoe.
From observing the rites of Easter we get the strict observance of fish on Fridays,especially in the Roman Catholic Church
I am old enough to remember that if you went to early morning communion you were not to have eaten breakfast,(I never went :: )
My Min L was a very moral woman,as was her lovely mother who would have been born in the 1860,s to 70,s.
They would both have fought  lions for their children but let those kids  mis -behave———-!
Full of prejudice and quite likely to air those views with the utmost confidence . There was a lot she did not understand,eg when cervical screening was available she was absolutely convinced “if you have led a decent life there is absolutely no need for that”,my sister in law and I of course thought ourselves fortunate we lived in times where it was available.
Dare we tell Min L, absolutely not.
But in her own way she was kind and caring and her four children thought so much of her ,BUT,did they ever contest her views? Did they heck as like so
she sailed through life in blissful ignorance,lived to be well over a hundred.
Proof to her she had been right all the time.
That does not answer the mystery of what form of Churching was inflicted on me,however I survived and got over it(well a bit :( ).
Thanks again folks for the interesting facts and once again I am staggered at the breadth of knowledge RootsChatters have and so kindly share.
                                                Viktoria.


Offline Viktoria

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,957
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What was a Chrisom?
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 23 June 18 15:09 BST (UK) »
Sorry folks,a bit got missed out.
Eating fish on Fridays was to remind Christians that it was Friday when Jesus was Crucified.
The pagan rituals such a Pace Egging were to welcome Spring and the  return of the Sun and new life.
The Christian Church absorbed these things so as to not exactly replace them but to allow them to go on under the auspices of the —-what was then —-new religion.Rather than alienate people .
There were  beliefs among people that for example if a mother said too often her baby was lovely,the fairies would steal it away.
 No guesses  as to where, many years ago that was a strongly held belief.
Naive people ,when they don,t understand things will always  fill the void.
A thought has occurred to me,I wonder if the Rector did not know how to calculate the length of human gestation and as it was just under a year previously I had been married,and presented my baby for Baptism and the Rector did not ask how old he was ,perhaps he thought I and my husband to be had “anticipated “ the wedding date.,  :o
Does anyone know if there is another form of Churching for say unmarried mothers or “shotgun wedding” mothers. 
Ah well, all water under the bridge (under which there may be. Troll lurking)
Thanks again for the info,being on RootsChat is like an education.
                      Viktoria,who might or might not have been no better than she ought to have been.

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What was a Chrisom?
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 23 June 18 16:42 BST (UK) »
The Christian Church absorbed these things so as to not exactly replace them but to allow them to go on under the auspices of the —-what was then —-new religion.Rather than alienate people .
There were  beliefs among people that for example if a mother said too often her baby was lovely,the fairies would steal it away.
 No guesses  as to where, many years ago that was a strongly held belief.
Naive people ,when they don,t understand things will always  fill the void.
A thought has occurred to me,I wonder if the Rector did not know how to calculate the length of human gestation and as it was just under a year previously I had been married,and presented my baby for Baptism and the Rector did not ask how old he was ,perhaps he thought I and my husband to be had “anticipated “ the wedding date.,  :o
Does anyone know if there is another form of Churching for say unmarried mothers or “shotgun wedding” mothers. 

Unbaptised babies were believed to be the ones most at risk of being stolen by otherworldly creatures and swapped for one of their own. The changeling may not have thrived like a normal baby should have done. One belief was that a changeling was an elderly fairy wanting to be cared for in its' declining years.
New mothers were also at risk of being taken to Fairyland to care for fairy infants.
Your MiL may have been unknowingly protecting you and your baby son from the risk of being spirited away to Fairyland, Viktoria.  :)

An unmarried mother wasn't supposed to be churched until she had confessed/repented. (Someone will know when this was the rule in C. of E.  Catholic confession is private and anonymous so theoretically only the woman herself would know if she'd repented.)
Cowban

Offline Viktoria

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,957
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What was a Chrisom?
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 23 June 18 22:13 BST (UK) »
Well I had been married for the required nine months(forty weeks) with a month to spare,perhaps the Rector was not good at maths.
M in L was a tarter,(thought that be tartar,thought they were Mongolian or Magnolian :D
She said things like they were,no pussyfooting and often put obnoxious people in their place,sometimes it was a delight to hear.
She loved my first baby and was so good when I needed to return to work,
my Mum had died when he was five months old,so we each went part time and she would not let me pay her anything.
I will always remember that kindness and felt I must bite my tongue.I did not want to appear ungrateful


Where the superstition  came from I am not sure, her mother was a delightful lady and also very religious ,not so ascerbic as her daughter.
There is a long tradition in that family that old people are cared for at home.
What a wonderful record they clocked up.

As far as I know,G.G Grandmother,,G Grandmother ,Grandmother and my sister in law will also be cared for at home by her daughter.

I have to say for all her foibles I miss  her ,she was over a hundred when she died.
                             Viktoria.

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What was a Chrisom?
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 24 June 18 13:17 BST (UK) »
Ah well, all water under the bridge (under which there may be. Troll lurking)

Meant to say that there was definitely a troll under the bridge.   :o  It turned to stone after I was prescribed spectacles. I remained wary of it in case it came to life again.  ;D  (I think trolls were another threat to unbaptised babies.)
Bad eyesight and darkness pre artificial lighting may explain some fears of the unknown.

Cowban

Offline Viktoria

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,957
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What was a Chrisom?
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 24 June 18 19:16 BST (UK) »
If you remember the late comedian Roy Castle,
he told a story of how before his very poor eyesight was detected and glasses prescribed,he used to do his Mum’s errands on a Saturday.
He had to pass a Greengrocer’s shop,but always crossed over because a great big brown dog sat outside,he was very afraid of dogs.
After he got his glasses , preparing  to cross the road as usual,the dog was not there but there was a sack of potatoes——-.
You have guessed it, the poor kid had been avoiding a sack of King Edwards for quite a number of years.
                       Viktoria.