Author Topic: Are these cousins?  (Read 1106 times)

Online Old Bristolian

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Are these cousins?
« on: Wednesday 20 June 18 21:31 BST (UK) »
I have two contacts, from different lines, who, by our joint paper trails appear to be fourth cousins of mine. We have all carried out DNA tests and uploaded the results to Gedmatch. Neither appeared as matches at first in the one-to-one function. However, on changing the parameters of the check, by lowering the thresholds, I found matches with both. One resulted in 21.3 cM in common over 16 segments; the other in 14.6 cM over 3 segments. Does this conclusively prove a relationship, and does it correspond with our being fourth cousins?

Steve
Bumstead - London, Suffolk
Plant, Woolnough, Wase, Suffolk
Flexney, Godfrey, Burson, Hobby -  Oxfordshire
Street, Mitchell - Gloucestershire
Horwood, Heale Drew - Bristol
Gibbs, Gait, Noyes, Peters, Padfield, Board, York, Rogers, Horler, Heale, Emery, Clavey, Mogg, - Somerset
Fook, Snell - Devon
M(a)cDonald, Yuell, Gollan, McKenzie - Rosshire
McLennan, Mackintosh - Inverness
Williams, Jones - Angelsey & Caernarvon
Campbell, McMartin, McLellan, McKercher, Perthshire

Offline sugarfizzle

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Re: Are these cousins?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 20 June 18 22:10 BST (UK) »
Steve, I would ask yourselves whether your paper trail confirms the connection, rather than if Gedmatch proves the connectIon.  :)

Up to 50% of 4th cousins share no DNA at all.  Presumably you lowered SNP thresholds, rather than cM.

I lowered both SNPs and cMs to try to 'prove' a connectIon with a known 4th cousin, and we matched a very small amount. Another 4th cousin on the same line matched the same very small amount on the same segment.

Whether this 'proves' we are all 4th cousins is open to debate, we need to find more decent matches from the same line to verify.

DNA is an adjunct to paper trail, but does not replace it, I am happy that my 4th cousins are my 4th cousins, DNA or no DNA.

Regards Margaret
STEER, mainly Surrey, Kent; PINNOCKS/HAINES, Gosport, Hants; BARKER, mainly Broadwater, Sussex; Gosport, Hampshire; LAVERSUCH, Micheldever, Hampshire; WESTALL, London, Reading, Berks; HYDE, Croydon, Surrey; BRIGDEN, Hadlow, Kent and London; TUTHILL/STEPHENS, London
WILKINSON, Leeds, Yorkshire and Liverpool; WILLIAMSON, Liverpool; BEARE, Yeovil, Somerset; ALLEN, Kent and London; GORST, Liverpool; HOYLE, mainly Leeds, Yorkshire

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.go

Online Old Bristolian

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Re: Are these cousins?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 20 June 18 22:45 BST (UK) »
We are quite happy with the paper trail, but that does not prove the line is correct - there may be illegitimacies not revealed by paper records. What I am asking is whether or not such small matches CONFIRM the paper trail or could these be a coincidence? We were thrown by the fact that a match was not shown up in the original one-to-one function,

Steve
Bumstead - London, Suffolk
Plant, Woolnough, Wase, Suffolk
Flexney, Godfrey, Burson, Hobby -  Oxfordshire
Street, Mitchell - Gloucestershire
Horwood, Heale Drew - Bristol
Gibbs, Gait, Noyes, Peters, Padfield, Board, York, Rogers, Horler, Heale, Emery, Clavey, Mogg, - Somerset
Fook, Snell - Devon
M(a)cDonald, Yuell, Gollan, McKenzie - Rosshire
McLennan, Mackintosh - Inverness
Williams, Jones - Angelsey & Caernarvon
Campbell, McMartin, McLellan, McKercher, Perthshire

Offline sugarfizzle

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Re: Are these cousins?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 20 June 18 22:48 BST (UK) »
The answer unfortunately then is no, the results cannot confirm that you are 4th cousins.

They may or may not indicate it, but cannot confirm it.

Regards Margaret
STEER, mainly Surrey, Kent; PINNOCKS/HAINES, Gosport, Hants; BARKER, mainly Broadwater, Sussex; Gosport, Hampshire; LAVERSUCH, Micheldever, Hampshire; WESTALL, London, Reading, Berks; HYDE, Croydon, Surrey; BRIGDEN, Hadlow, Kent and London; TUTHILL/STEPHENS, London
WILKINSON, Leeds, Yorkshire and Liverpool; WILLIAMSON, Liverpool; BEARE, Yeovil, Somerset; ALLEN, Kent and London; GORST, Liverpool; HOYLE, mainly Leeds, Yorkshire

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.go


Online Old Bristolian

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Re: Are these cousins?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 21 June 18 10:15 BST (UK) »
Thanks Margaret,

I realise that we are dealing with a question of probablities rather than absolutes, even in the closest of matches. I suppose that my real question is if these small match indications could exist for people with no relationship and therefore are usless for genealogical queries,

Steve
Bumstead - London, Suffolk
Plant, Woolnough, Wase, Suffolk
Flexney, Godfrey, Burson, Hobby -  Oxfordshire
Street, Mitchell - Gloucestershire
Horwood, Heale Drew - Bristol
Gibbs, Gait, Noyes, Peters, Padfield, Board, York, Rogers, Horler, Heale, Emery, Clavey, Mogg, - Somerset
Fook, Snell - Devon
M(a)cDonald, Yuell, Gollan, McKenzie - Rosshire
McLennan, Mackintosh - Inverness
Williams, Jones - Angelsey & Caernarvon
Campbell, McMartin, McLellan, McKercher, Perthshire

Offline Carmella

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Re: Are these cousins?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 22 June 18 13:55 BST (UK) »

Online Old Bristolian

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Re: Are these cousins?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 23 June 18 19:17 BST (UK) »
Thank you both for your help. It seems I need to find others in the same line to be more positive, as it's early days for me yet

Steve
Bumstead - London, Suffolk
Plant, Woolnough, Wase, Suffolk
Flexney, Godfrey, Burson, Hobby -  Oxfordshire
Street, Mitchell - Gloucestershire
Horwood, Heale Drew - Bristol
Gibbs, Gait, Noyes, Peters, Padfield, Board, York, Rogers, Horler, Heale, Emery, Clavey, Mogg, - Somerset
Fook, Snell - Devon
M(a)cDonald, Yuell, Gollan, McKenzie - Rosshire
McLennan, Mackintosh - Inverness
Williams, Jones - Angelsey & Caernarvon
Campbell, McMartin, McLellan, McKercher, Perthshire