Author Topic: DNA  (Read 2701 times)

Offline brigidmac

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Re: DNA
« Reply #9 on: Friday 22 June 18 20:18 BST (UK) »
It's intriguing. ..but I think you are saying that the American branch is more distant ....ie not from the 8 brothers

Could be that your mother or grandfather's wife was also somehow distantly connected to the US family so your DNA connection is stronger

 other fanciful ideas is that your grandfather was actually a neice or nephews son  taken in by your great
grandparents but then your 2nd cousins wouldn't all come out equally related .

Or your grandad had a twin taken to USA. By the other branch of Mahone..would explain a closer match.

What are the age gaps between the 8 original children
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

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Re: DNA
« Reply #10 on: Friday 22 June 18 20:23 BST (UK) »
Ps do you have any first cousins who didn't match either ?
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline mahon

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Re: DNA
« Reply #11 on: Friday 22 June 18 21:44 BST (UK) »
HI Bridget thank you for your reply, So my Grandfather is one of these eight.I have no first cousins who have taken the DNA.so my list on my dna starts with my sister then my matches are as follows.
(hope you know how the dna look haha)
1 my sister
2. 2nd to  3rd one of the grandchildren of the eight
3. 2nd to 3rd one of the grandchildren of the eight
4. my mothers side
5. 3rd to 4th a great great grandson of the eight
6. unknown
7. 3rd to 4th one of the grandchildren of the eight.
8. 3rd to 4th one of the grandchildren of the eight
9. 3rd to 4th a great grandson of the eight.
10.my mothers side
11.unknown
124 -6.my mothers side.
13.4-6 my mothers side.
14.4-6 a great grandson of the mother of the eights sister.
15.unknown 
16. 4-6 the american i thinks is related
17.4-6 one of the grandchildren of the eight
18. 4.6  the american i think is related (cousin of the one above)
it goes on like this with another 4 from the americans matching.

A sample of dna from 2nd  to 3rd  cousin.
132 centimorgans shared across 7 DNA segments according to ancestry 100% Related.

This is the american dna 51 centimorgans shared across 4 DNA segments which according to ancestry means 99% related.
I dont believe the dna is wrong.

Offline brigidmac

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Re: DNA
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 23 June 18 00:14 BST (UK) »
I believe in DNA too
At 4-6 cousin relations tho it's probably just coincidental that you and your sis showed links and other 2nd cousins didn't.

I have similar connections  in 1 case link to a 3rd cousin only 1 great grandparent in common but I don't match to her brother (they are full siblings)
my mother matches him . As 3-4th cousin
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson


Offline mahon

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Re: DNA
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 23 June 18 08:01 BST (UK) »
Thanks Bridget

The problem is yes i agree , Me and my sister have several on that we dont both match and i believe thats totally expected but in this case the DNA of the Americans start coming in at 16th on my list and carry on being there in both me and my sister. Each time a new american gets DNA tested from this family me and my sister match but not the cousins. Even ancestry have said to have at least 30 of these 2nd cousins who don't match these people means clearly they are not related and for us to match we are.

Offline brigidmac

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Re: DNA
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 23 June 18 09:41 BST (UK) »
So who are the Americansame descended  from ...according to their research. .. what are names and dates of their great grandparents? 

Are there any other name links ?
Have you used the locality match buttons on Ancestry to match to a paper trail  ?
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline sugarfizzle

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Re: DNA
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 23 June 18 11:35 BST (UK) »
From what you have said, you and your American cousins definitely match, and you and your English cousins definitely match, but your English cousins don't match the American ones at all, in any shape or form, even at 5th to 8th cousin level.

This comes across as an illegitimacy at some stage, but where? For you to match with both sets, it would not seem to be in your family line.

The American matches start coming in a bit further down your list of matches, so I would think that is where the unknown comes in. The fact that the first American match shared significantly less DNA than your English matches, but supposedly from the same MRCA might indicate that your great grandmother had one child 'out of wedlock' or your great grandfather fathered an illegitimate child who was brought up in the same family as the rest. Thus, those descended from this branch, the American one, inherit a lot less DNA.

According to ISOGG, up to 10% of third cousins will not share enough DNA to show up as match. I know you are 2nd cousins, but if the American branch is descended from an illegitamacy, they will be further removed.

I think you'll just have to carry on digging, looking for any other possibilities​ as well.  I'll be intetested to learn how this turns out.  :)

Regards Margaret

STEER, mainly Surrey, Kent; PINNOCKS/HAINES, Gosport, Hants; BARKER, mainly Broadwater, Sussex; Gosport, Hampshire; LAVERSUCH, Micheldever, Hampshire; WESTALL, London, Reading, Berks; HYDE, Croydon, Surrey; BRIGDEN, Hadlow, Kent and London; TUTHILL/STEPHENS, London
WILKINSON, Leeds, Yorkshire and Liverpool; WILLIAMSON, Liverpool; BEARE, Yeovil, Somerset; ALLEN, Kent and London; GORST, Liverpool; HOYLE, mainly Leeds, Yorkshire

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.go

Offline mahon

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Re: DNA
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 23 June 18 17:58 BST (UK) »
Thanks Margaret. The Americans come in back in 1833 in Killeen Meath. Cornelious Mahon marries Jane Ward in Moynalvy. John Mahon marries Bridget Cowley the same week.John and Bridget go to Dublin and Cornelious goes to American, The Americans i speak of are  decendants of Cornelious and i Believe John was his brother. John went on to have Thomas Mahon who left Dublin and   had the eight siblings  am talking about. So if John and Cornelious were brothers then Thomas and would be a cousin to Cornelious children.xx 

Offline sugarfizzle

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Re: DNA
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 23 June 18 19:33 BST (UK) »
Do you have any other reason to believe that Cornelius and John were brothers, e.g. baptism with same parents name, or anything else? Who were witnesses at the marriages?

I have looked for this family at ancestry public trees, and no-one seems to have confirmed parentage for either Cornelius or John.

Different trees have Cornelius born c 1802 and 1806, John born 1809 - 1810.
If Cornelius was the eldest child, then he might have been born to a different father. Children often take the surname of the man who raised them, even if he wasn't their father.

My 2G grandmother Mary Ann Steer had 2 sons fathered by the same man before she settled down and married someone else. They kept their original surname, but as they were both under 4, could easily have taken the surname of their stepfather, James Wood. If no baptisms existed for the 2 boys and they had taken his name, I wouldn't have matched with any of siblings of James Wood and might have been puzzled in the same way as you. I do match with one of their children, but to a good deal less obviously than I might have thought - the match appears as 5th to 8th cousin, and only 6.7 cM. My first cousin doesn't match at all.

Have any of you uploaded your results anywhere else to use a chromosome browser? Your English cousins might match the American ones at a lesser level.

Regards, Margaret
STEER, mainly Surrey, Kent; PINNOCKS/HAINES, Gosport, Hants; BARKER, mainly Broadwater, Sussex; Gosport, Hampshire; LAVERSUCH, Micheldever, Hampshire; WESTALL, London, Reading, Berks; HYDE, Croydon, Surrey; BRIGDEN, Hadlow, Kent and London; TUTHILL/STEPHENS, London
WILKINSON, Leeds, Yorkshire and Liverpool; WILLIAMSON, Liverpool; BEARE, Yeovil, Somerset; ALLEN, Kent and London; GORST, Liverpool; HOYLE, mainly Leeds, Yorkshire

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.go