Author Topic: Where is Dolly?  (Read 456 times)

Offline lydiaann

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Where is Dolly?
« on: Friday 22 June 18 14:48 BST (UK) »
James Craven (b. Banchory-Ternan 1884), gamekeeper, married Stefanie Rose ?? in about 1913 in Malazcka, Hungary (now Malacky, Slovakia).  They had 3 children, Dolly (probably Dorothy), James and Daisy and it is believed they returned to England post-war; James started travelling backwards and forwards across the Atlantic in 1925. James Sr. was killed in the USA in 1929 but his widow and children stayed on in Derby.  We have the whereabouts of Stefanie in the 1939 Register (running a guesthouse in Charnwood Street, Derby).  On this Register, both Dolly and Daisy are 'missing'.  In 1949-1952 incl., Stefi and Daisy are in Woodmancote, Glos and between 1961 and 1973 they are together in Cheltenham.  Stefi died in 1977 but Daisy remained in the house in Cheltenham (viz, telephone directories) at least until 1984: she is referred to either as Daisy M I Craven or Daisy Margaret Craven. We now know - more or less - James Jr's life (ending in 2001 in Australia), but of Dolly/Dorothy we can find no mention.  The only proof we have of her life is a photo of the 4 of them (Stefi and children) 3 months after James' Sr's death.  There is a suspicion that the Dorothy Williams living next door to Stefi could be Dolly, but I can find no record of her marriage to a Harold C Williams or to anybody else; indeed, I can find nothing about her at all.  We believe the dates of birth to be 1913, 1914 and about 1916-17.  We also know nothing of Daisy's life before 1939 and I cannot find a death for her in Glos. (mind you, she'd be just about 100-102 so it is possible she is still alive).  Anybody have any ideas about what I should do next, please?
Cravens of Wakefield, Alnwick, Banchory-Ternan
Houghtons and Harrises of Melbourne, Derbyshire
Taylors of Chadderton/Oldham, Lancashire
MacGillivrays of Mull
Macdonalds of Dundee

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Offline medpat

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Re: Where is Dolly?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 22 June 18 14:51 BST (UK) »
I have known 3 ladies called Dolly all were Doris not Dorothy. The Dorothy I knew was called Dot.
Lloyd, Paddock, Cooper, Morris, Darby, Rigby, Platt, Armstrong. All based in West Midlands

GEDmatch M157477

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Offline lydiaann

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Re: Where is Dolly?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 22 June 18 14:56 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that observation, medpat.  The reason I stated 'probably Dorothy' is that Dorothy is a Craven family name and the Cravens (or at least my branches) were hot on that.  I will try Doris, but I think I may be right when baptising her Dolly!  My mum was a Dorothy Craven, known as Dolly.
Cravens of Wakefield, Alnwick, Banchory-Ternan
Houghtons and Harrises of Melbourne, Derbyshire
Taylors of Chadderton/Oldham, Lancashire
MacGillivrays of Mull
Macdonalds of Dundee

Offline rosie99

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Re: Where is Dolly?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 22 June 18 15:33 BST (UK) »
There is a Daisy M Craven on electoral registers 2013/14 in the town you last had her.
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Offline rosie99

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Re: Where is Dolly?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 22 June 18 15:38 BST (UK) »
Probate index
CRAVEN   DAISY MARGARET ISABELLA   
Date of probate 06 June 2014   
Probate no 4347971   
Date of death 22 March 2014   
Grant and will   Oxford
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Offline lydiaann

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Re: Where is Dolly?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 22 June 18 15:42 BST (UK) »
rosie:  You star!  Where did you find those records?  They are too recent for A*y surely?   But for sure they are both her.  Thank you so much.

Now for Dolly/Dorothy!  (No, I'm not expecting you to do all the work, but if you do happen on anything.... ??? ;D!)
Cravens of Wakefield, Alnwick, Banchory-Ternan
Houghtons and Harrises of Melbourne, Derbyshire
Taylors of Chadderton/Oldham, Lancashire
MacGillivrays of Mull
Macdonalds of Dundee

Offline rosie99

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Re: Where is Dolly?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 22 June 18 15:49 BST (UK) »
Electoral register F M P

Probate index for will
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
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Offline avm228

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Re: Where is Dolly?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 22 June 18 16:08 BST (UK) »
Harold W Williams was so much older than Dorothy that he might already have had a lawful spouse elsewhere.

Possible birth reg as Harold Wilfred Williams, Sep qtr 1897 Bury.  This man appears to have married a Dorothy R Yates, in Atcham, Shropshire in 1923* and had at least one daughter, Sybil Regina Williams mmn Yates, born 1923.

*Obviously this is not the Dorothy you have found in 1939, who is too young to be a match.  So this man may be a red herring, or may have moved on to a second Dorothy.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline rosie99

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Re: Where is Dolly?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 22 June 18 16:26 BST (UK) »
I wonder if this is her
Marriage Dec qtr 1940 
Adcock    John C    (spouse Craven)   
Craven    Dorothy    (spouse Adcock)
Derby    7b   1958

Pre war possibly living Cheltenham also future husband
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk