Author Topic: A baptism for an unnamed child  (Read 1570 times)

Offline Gerry_R

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A baptism for an unnamed child
« on: Saturday 23 June 18 05:25 BST (UK) »
I am looking at a baptism dated 1 June 1845 at St Mary's Kilkenny City where there is no name provided for the child. Parents' names are there, together with those of two sponsors.
From the fact that the record has not been deleted, I infer that a baptism did actually take place. Why is the child not named? I can only think that the child was stillborn, but can anyone offer an alternative explanation or shed more light on this?
There is no mention of the child in later records involving the family, by the way, which does point to a post mortem baptism. 
Jennings/Jenness (Norwich); Jennings (Victoria, Australia); Farrow (Middlesex); Pye (Leicestershire); Service (N Ireland; New Zealand; Victoria); Hollinger (N Ireland); Rohan and Buckley (Co Cork, Ireland); Rohan (Victoria); Keating (Co Clare, Ireland); Lewis (Wales); Baldwin (Staffordshire); Lewis and Baldwin (West Aust); Baird and Davidson/Smith (East Lothian, Sco.); Jack and Watson (Banffshire, Sco.); Bostock (Middlesex);

Offline hallmark

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Re: A baptism for an unnamed child
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 23 June 18 07:04 BST (UK) »
Have you the Link to it??
Give a man a record and you feed him for a day.
Teach a man to research, and you feed him for a lifetime.

Offline Sinann

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Re: A baptism for an unnamed child
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 23 June 18 07:11 BST (UK) »
Fairly sure Catholics don't baptise stillborns, looks like he couldn't remember the child's name so left a space to fill in later but never got around to it.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635368#page/50/mode/1up

Offline gaffy

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Re: A baptism for an unnamed child
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 23 June 18 07:19 BST (UK) »
I can only think that the child was stillborn...

My understanding of such circumstances was that it was where the child was born alive, but at risk of imminent death, including cases of doubt (ie. uncertain if alive, but where there might be the slightest chance).  But not where the child was clearly already deceased at birth.



Offline Gerry_R

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Re: A baptism for an unnamed child
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 23 June 18 07:33 BST (UK) »
Thank you, Hallmark, Sinann and Gaffy.

I accessed my record through subscription site, FindMyPast,, so the link is probably not helpful.
However, I have copied the entry and attached it.

Jennings/Jenness (Norwich); Jennings (Victoria, Australia); Farrow (Middlesex); Pye (Leicestershire); Service (N Ireland; New Zealand; Victoria); Hollinger (N Ireland); Rohan and Buckley (Co Cork, Ireland); Rohan (Victoria); Keating (Co Clare, Ireland); Lewis (Wales); Baldwin (Staffordshire); Lewis and Baldwin (West Aust); Baird and Davidson/Smith (East Lothian, Sco.); Jack and Watson (Banffshire, Sco.); Bostock (Middlesex);

Offline aghadowey

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Re: A baptism for an unnamed child
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 23 June 18 08:43 BST (UK) »
A child/person has to be alive in order to be baptised so a stillborn child cannot be baptised. In this case it's likely the child either hadn't been given a Christian name or the minister failed to record the name. If the baptism occurred at home by the time he went to write the entry the name might have been forgotten as often seemed to happen.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Gerry_R

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Re: A baptism for an unnamed child
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 23 June 18 09:58 BST (UK) »
Thank you all for your advice and ideas.

Aghadowey, I hadn't thought of the possibility that the minister might have forgotten the child's name.

Sinann, I was not aware of the NLI site for access to Irish Catholic records, but I'm enjoying looking through years of record and noting old family names! Brilliant!
Jennings/Jenness (Norwich); Jennings (Victoria, Australia); Farrow (Middlesex); Pye (Leicestershire); Service (N Ireland; New Zealand; Victoria); Hollinger (N Ireland); Rohan and Buckley (Co Cork, Ireland); Rohan (Victoria); Keating (Co Clare, Ireland); Lewis (Wales); Baldwin (Staffordshire); Lewis and Baldwin (West Aust); Baird and Davidson/Smith (East Lothian, Sco.); Jack and Watson (Banffshire, Sco.); Bostock (Middlesex);

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: A baptism for an unnamed child
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 23 June 18 17:41 BST (UK) »
I'm inclined to agree with aghadowey post #5 that either the child hadn't been named or the priest forgot the name. What order in the family did the child come? If it was a younger child in a large family the parents might not have agreed on a name. Perhaps the birth had surprised them. (I know 2 couples this happened to late 20thC; both women thought they were ill.) Another possible reason is that the parents had chosen a name which wasn't a saint's name and didn't meet with the priest's approval so he ignored it!
As there were 2 named sponsors it suggests to me that it was in all other respects a normal baptism.
See: Catholic Encyclopedia: Baptism: Adjuncts of baptism: Sponsors
"They are never necessary in private baptism."
newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm#xvi

Catholic Encyclopedia: Baptism: Baptism of unborn infants
newadvent.org/cathen/022586b.htm#vii

Taking into account the year of birth it's not surprising if the child didn't survive.

Cowban

Offline Gerry_R

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Re: A baptism for an unnamed child
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 24 June 18 01:40 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your thoughts, Maiden Stone.

With regard to birth order, this child was the second of four born in Ireland: 1843, 1845, 1846, and about 1849. The three who survived accompanied their parents to Fremantle, Western Australia, in 1853. The fourth died at sea, just a few weeks from the end of the journey.

Jennings/Jenness (Norwich); Jennings (Victoria, Australia); Farrow (Middlesex); Pye (Leicestershire); Service (N Ireland; New Zealand; Victoria); Hollinger (N Ireland); Rohan and Buckley (Co Cork, Ireland); Rohan (Victoria); Keating (Co Clare, Ireland); Lewis (Wales); Baldwin (Staffordshire); Lewis and Baldwin (West Aust); Baird and Davidson/Smith (East Lothian, Sco.); Jack and Watson (Banffshire, Sco.); Bostock (Middlesex);