Author Topic: Isabella Anderson of Gamrie. A very complicated lady!  (Read 9279 times)

Offline Liviani

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Re: Isabella Anderson of Gamrie. A very complicated lady!
« Reply #9 on: Monday 25 June 18 19:56 BST (UK) »
Names of all children in order are a good pointer but have you checked out the siblings of each (Francis & Isabella), witnesses to events etc. which can hold good clues?
Annie

Will sort that tonight in this post. For now, here is a snip of Robert Anderson's baptism record. This is Francis' brother.

His parents were at Haddolays, where their son Francis farmed at for a time. The witnesses appear to be; George Campbell of Aberdour and can't make out the other name ____ Foulie.. in the .. of Troup?
mtDNA subclade K1b2b. Father's Y-DNA I-S25383
GEDmatch kit; CF7867455
Father's kit; RY1336515
Mother's kit; AF2312865


Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie.
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Elder, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott.
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Online Forfarian

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Re: Isabella Anderson of Gamrie. A very complicated lady!
« Reply #10 on: Monday 25 June 18 22:02 BST (UK) »
His parents were at Haddolays, where their son Francis farmed at for a time. The witnesses appear to be; George Campbell of Aberdour and can't make out the other name ____ Foulie.. in the .. of Troup?
Alexr Fowlie in the Glens of Troup.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Liviani

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Re: Isabella Anderson of Gamrie. A very complicated lady!
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 27 June 18 01:46 BST (UK) »
Many thanks Forfarian. I've managed to find this place on an NLS map.

Now, I'll list the siblings and parents of Isabella Anderson and Francis Anderson. Also including a snip of Isabella/Isobel's baptism.

Isabella Anderson

Any mention of an 'Isabella' in this post will refer to her unless other wise stated since there are so many.

Born - June 1826 in Doups, Gamrie, Banffshire.
Witnesses were, John Anderson and Duff Munro of Cross-Slacks.
There is no location given for John Anderson, it could be that he was also located at Cross-Slacks?
Dies - ? Sometimes after 1871. Cannot find a record for her.
Duff Munro is in the 1841 Census still at Cross-Slacks, Gamrie. Aged 63 and is a 'Wright'.
Marries - Francis Anderson, 1859, Gamrie.

Parents of Isabella Anderson

  • Robert Anderson. Born ? Died bef. 1840. Marries Elizabeth 1825, Gamrie
  • Elizabeth Ferrier. Born 1808 - Gamrie.    Died 1870 - Turriff.
  • Step-father; Francis Jamieson. Born 1801 - Gamrie. Marries Elizabeth in 1840, Gamrie

Siblings of Isabella Anderson

  • John b.1828, Gamrie
  • Francis b.1830, Gamrie
  • James b.1832, Gamrie
  • Elizabeth b.1834, Gamrie
  • Barbara b.1836, Gamrie

Half-siblings of Isabella Anderson (with Jamieson surname)

  • George b.1840, Gamrie
  • William b.1842, Gamrie
  • Margaret b.1843, Gamrie
  • Alexander b.1846, Gamrie

Francis Anderson

Born - 22nd June 1791, Gamrie.
Dies - 13th May 1863, Macduff, Gamrie.
Marries - Isobel Massie, 1824, Gamrie.
Marries - Isabella Anderson, 1859, Gamrie.

Parents of Francis Anderson

  • William Anderson
  • Christian Bruce. Born 1754 - Aberdour, Aberdeenshire

Siblings of Francis Anderson

  • John b.1793, Gamrie (could this be the witness on Isabella's baptism?)
  • William b.1795, Gamrie
  • Anne b.1797, Gamrie
  • Robert b.1800, Gamrie (presume died in infancy)
  • Robert b.1802, Gamrie (potentially Isabella's father?)


Children of Francis Anderson & his first wife Isobel Massie

  • Mary b.1826, Gamrie
  • Isabella b. abt 1831, Gamrie
  • Margaret b.1832, Gamrie
  • Christian b.1834, Gamrie
  • Francis (male) b.1840, Gamrie
  • John b.1842, Gamrie

Children of Francis Anderson & his second wife Isabella Anderson

I will include the illegitimate children of Isabella here, presuming that Francis is the father. Indeed, on my GG Grandmother, Margaret Ann's DC, her widower James Knight informs that Francis is her father.

  • Patrick b.1855, Gardenstown, Gamrie (illegitimate)
  • Isabella Frances b.1857, Gamrie, d.1860, Gamrie (illegitimate)
  • Margaret Ann b.1859, Gamrie (illegitimate)
  • Mary Frances b.1863, Gamrie (legitimate)

Isabella goes on to have a further child after her husband Francis dies in May 1863. This child is called Isabella b.1866, Macduff, Gamrie. Father unknown.

Now, Francis' brother, Robert b.1802, was born in Haddoleys, Gamrie. Francis himself is at Haddoleys in 1841. Unfortunately the witnesses on said Robert's baptism don't offer any clues; Alexander Fowlie/Foulie of Glens of Troup and George Campbell of Aberdour. There is an Alexr. Fowlie aged 80 in 1841 at Dons, Gamrie, born outside county.

If we move forward to Isabella's baptism record of 1826. She was born at Doups, Gamrie. Witnesses were John Anderson and a Duff Munro of Cross-Slacks as mentioned earlier. Could this John be the same one born 1793 and Francis brother? Making him Robert's brother? This is all just a theory just now, but it seems logical to me?

In 1841 Isabella is at 'Snub' in Gamrie living with her step father Francis Jamieson and other family members.

I've had a look at NLS maps for the various locations mentioned here, and Doups, Glens of Troup, Snub and Haddoleys are all pretty much neighbouring properties (snip included for reference), this is between both Isabella's family and Francis'. My suspicions on this being true is also in reference to Isabella marrying Francis in 1859. By this point, Isabella already had 3 illegitimate children and Francis himself was a pauper. He was 68 years old when he married 33 year old Isabella. It's not as if Isabella married him for support for the children? It's all very odd to me. According to his death certificate, it states he died of and had 'chronic bronchitis, for years'. So he wasn't exactly a very healthy man either. It does make me question whether or not he is indeed the father of Isabella's children at all. It's a very strange family for the time, and one which doesn't make much sense to me. The only explanation that keeps going through my head is that Francis was her uncle, and felt some sort of duty to marry her to save her from further shame? Who knows, but it does seem to fit?

Anyone have any other suggestions or ideas, I'm welcome to them. Also still hunting down her DC and if she's still in Scotland or alive in 1881.

Many thanks,

Liv.





mtDNA subclade K1b2b. Father's Y-DNA I-S25383
GEDmatch kit; CF7867455
Father's kit; RY1336515
Mother's kit; AF2312865


Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie.
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Elder, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott.
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Isabella Anderson of Gamrie. A very complicated lady!
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 27 June 18 02:28 BST (UK) »
"The witnesses to their marriage in 1859 were a Thomas Wilson and George Gill. These men were also witnesses to Isabella Anderson signing her mark."

A slight variation on the spelling & regarding address in 1859 there does seem to be ties of a sort to the surname Gill/Gillan...

VRs;

GILLAN JAMES
Tenant
PART HOUSE NO 28 GELLYMILL STREET BURGH OF BARONY OF MACDUFF, GAMRIE
1855
VR009100001-

WILSON THOMAS (He appears to own other properties)?
Proprietor Occupier
HOUSE AND GARDEN NO 13 GELLYMILL STREET BURGH OF BARONY OF MACDUFF, GAMRIE
1855
VR009100001-

Annie

South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"


Offline Rosinish

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Re: Isabella Anderson of Gamrie. A very complicated lady!
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 27 June 18 02:56 BST (UK) »
"Dies - ? Sometimes after 1871. Cannot find a record for her."

Have you traced where her children were later, married etc. as Isabella may have gone to live with one of her children?

Annie

South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Liviani

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Re: Isabella Anderson of Gamrie. A very complicated lady!
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 27 June 18 02:58 BST (UK) »
"The witnesses to their marriage in 1859 were a Thomas Wilson and George Gill. These men were also witnesses to Isabella Anderson signing her mark."

A slight variation on the spelling & regarding address in 1859 there does seem to be ties of a sort to the surname Gill/Gillan...

VRs;

GILLAN JAMES
Tenant
PART HOUSE NO 28 GELLYMILL STREET BURGH OF BARONY OF MACDUFF, GAMRIE
1855
VR009100001-

WILSON THOMAS (He appears to own other properties)?
Proprietor Occupier
HOUSE AND GARDEN NO 13 GELLYMILL STREET BURGH OF BARONY OF MACDUFF, GAMRIE
1855
VR009100001-

Annie

That's really interesting. Good find Annie.

I've just re-checked the 1859 MC between Isabella and Francis and it appears the "38" Gellymill Street for Isabella's address isn't a 3 after all. On closer inspection it's definitely a 2. So they were both living at 28 Gellymill Street together at the time of their marriage in 1859.

Re Thomas Wilson. I've checked the 1851 census, and the minister of Gamrie at the time was a Thomas Wilson aged 58, living in the Manse with his family. He is also living with a son "Thomas J." aged 17 who was an A.M Student. Perhaps this is the witness. The minister by 1859 had changed to a James Cruden.
mtDNA subclade K1b2b. Father's Y-DNA I-S25383
GEDmatch kit; CF7867455
Father's kit; RY1336515
Mother's kit; AF2312865


Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie.
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Elder, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott.
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Isabella Anderson of Gamrie. A very complicated lady!
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 27 June 18 03:21 BST (UK) »
I wonder if Isabella moved back?

ANDERSON MRS
Occupier
HOUSE GARDEN AND STABLE 28 MACDUFF GELLYMILL STREET, GAMRIE
1875
VR009100037-

This one is hard to work out as I've noticed in the past a widow would be entered as 'Widow' rather than 'Mrs' but I don't think it was a rule although I don't know?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Isabella Anderson of Gamrie. A very complicated lady!
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 27 June 18 03:58 BST (UK) »
Have you considered a re-marriage?

I have no idea of distances between places in Banffshire but...

ANDERSON ISABELLA
DUNCAN GEORGE
1874
159/ 3   
Keith

There are a host of surname Duncan on the VRs 1875 e.g...

DUNCAN ELSPET
Tenant Occupier
DWELLING HOUSE 19 CARMELITE STREET, BANFF (where Isabella was in 1871)!
1875
VR000800004-

Annie

South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Isabella Anderson of Gamrie. A very complicated lady!
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 27 June 18 04:29 BST (UK) »
I noticed on the 1861 census, Patrick (b 1855) was shown as Patrick S

Do you know what the 'S' relates to?

I see he died the following year  :(

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"