Help with Catholic Baptisms in Carlisle Cumberland 1860's

[rosie99]

What information does Margaret Ann's marriage certificate give

[Linda Dawson]

Thank you to all who have replied. I don't have a copy of the marriage certificate. The info was given to me by another relative. I know her fathers name was Patrick Martin. I am still confused as the 1871 census shows a Patrick and Margaret with children half of whom appear to have the mother Regan and the other half Hanley.

Cheers
Linda

[rosie99]

Just posting 1871 for anyone trying to help
Patrick Martin 36 born Ireland
Margaret 23 born Ireland
Mary  16 born Ireland
John 12 born Cumberland
Edward 9 bn Carlisle (mmn Regan)
Mary A 6 bn Carlisle  (possibly Ann mmn Rogan)
Elizabeth 5 bn Carlisle
Sarah J 1 bn Carlisle

1881 has Patrick age 46 with children all born Carlisle
Edward 19
Elizabeth 14
Hugh 9 (mmn Regan)

1891 it is just Patrick a widower & Hugh

It is possible that not all of the childrens births were registered as it was not the sole responsibility of the parents to do this until the late 1870's.  If the age of 23 in 1871 of mother Margaret is correct then she is not the mother of all the children 

[Linda Dawson]

Margaret is 24 on the 1861 census and 44 on the 1881 census so not sure about the 1871 census age.

Also the mother listed for Elizabeth and Sarah Jane is Hanley then Regan again for Hugh

[Linda Dawson]

Not sure if I have the right Margaret for the 1881 census but Patrick does list himself as married on the 1881 census suggesting Margaret is still alive and is the lady in the asylum.

[rosie99]

I had not seen the 1861 but have found it now so Margaret is probably the mother of them all 

Mary age 5 born Bewcastle  (She is born Ireland on the next census  )
MARTIN, MARY       mmn RAGGEN     
1856  Dec Quarter in LONGTOWN  Volume 10B  Page 345   

John age 18 months bn Carlisle
MARTIN, JOHN       mmn HANLEY     
1859  Dec Quarter in CARLISLE  Volume 10B  Page 389

I do think that if your Margaret is definitely the daughter of Patrick (If it was me I would be wanting a copy of the Marriage certificate)  then she is the Ann birth registration mmn R*gan. 

[Linda Dawson]

Thank you. Yes I think copy of the marriage cert and Ann's birth certificate is the next step. I was hoping to see if I could access to baptism records to possibly shed some light on the Regan/Hanley mystery. On the other hand it may just make t worse.

Thank you for everyone's help

Linda

[rosie99]

On the plus side mothers name at death ties in with the family.  I can't see a marriage for Patrick & Margaret.  I did wonder if Margaret was illegitimate and that her mother then married so she did not know which surname to use.

[Maiden Stone]

GEN UKI website Cumberland pages
www.genuki.org/big/eng/CUL/
has information on Cumberland parishes, church records (link to Cumberlnad Roots website, now archived),  civil registration (Cumberland BMD Indexes online; list of Cumberland registration districts 1837-1974).

GEN UKI Church Database
www.genuki.org/big/churchdb
Enter name of place in which church was located. This will bring up a page with list of churches. Select denomination from list at top of page. 5 R.C. churches listed for Carlisle, 3 of which were probably founded too late.
Earliest one, founded 1821 is on list as "Roman Catholic Chapel Carlisle". Closure date unknown.
St. Mary & St. Joseph was founded before 1881. Closure date unknown.
St. Bede founded 1884.
Catholic priests in England established missions in some places long before a parish or an actual church building was founded so it's possible that the congregations of St. Mary & St. Joseph and St. Bede existed as entities prior to 1880s.

Edit. Just tested above links and got "Error not found" for both. Will have to access them through GEN UKI home page.