Author Topic: Tracking down William Frederick Trotter Smith b1901 Gateshead  (Read 3932 times)

Offline MrsSelfPub

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Tracking down William Frederick Trotter Smith b1901 Gateshead
« on: Tuesday 10 July 18 12:52 BST (UK) »
I am looking for guidance on how to find out what happened to William Frederick Trotter Smith, born illegitimately according to family lore to a barmaid in Gateshead in 1901.  He was a bit of a rogue and his military records show this as he was briefly in WW1, re-enlisted in 1920 (only to be discharged due to civil criminal proceedings), re-appears in Shorncliffe (forces camp) Kent in 1930 before serving in India in 1933 (his wife and daughter accompanied him and the toddler died during the crossing - trying to find records of this too).

He must have returned from India and then re-enlisted into the Royal Engineers in 1938 (Service no. now 1887915) but is discharged in 1941.  He then disappears and I cannot find him.  Family conjecture suggests he was going to start up a woodworking business possibly in the Birmingham area (Moseley) but no record of him can I find. His wife re-marries in 1967 and I don't know if she knew if he had died or if she had been deserted and possibly had the marriage annulled.

Any help or suggestions of how to proceed would be so very much appreciated.

Thank you
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Re: Tracking down William Frederick Trotter Smith b1901 Gateshead
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 10 July 18 14:21 BST (UK) »
This is William's birth record from the GRO website

SMITH, WILLIAM  FREDERICK TROTTER    -     
GRO Reference: 1901  J Quarter in GATESHEAD  Volume 10A  Page 1005

The little dash instead of a mother's maiden name indicates he was illegitimate so family lore is correct there.   
 
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline rosie99

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Re: Tracking down William Frederick Trotter Smith b1901 Gateshead
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 10 July 18 14:26 BST (UK) »
Do you have his date of birth  :-\

Ignore that  ;D
Service record has it as 2 Mar 1901

ADDED he was Invalided out in 1917 - Mental instability
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Re: Tracking down William Frederick Trotter Smith b1901 Gateshead
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 10 July 18 14:39 BST (UK) »
Wonder if the Trotter is any indication of who his father was?

When did William marry, to whom and when was his daughter born?
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire


Offline keyboard86

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Re: Tracking down William Frederick Trotter Smith b1901 Gateshead
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 10 July 18 15:53 BST (UK) »
Hi the only William F T Smith marriage I can locate was Sept qtr 1929 Lewisham 1d 2612 to a Phyllis G Cordock? Possible birth Dec qtr 1908 Woolwich as Phyllis Gwendoline Cordock who possibly remarried as Phyllis G Smith March qtr 1967 Cardiff to James F Cass.
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Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

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Offline jim1

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Re: Tracking down William Frederick Trotter Smith b1901 Gateshead
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 10 July 18 16:18 BST (UK) »
What was the name of the toddler?
The death would have been registered under Consular deaths.
I can't see a female birth for Smith mmn Cordock prior to 1939.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
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www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline MrsSelfPub

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Re: Tracking down William Frederick Trotter Smith b1901 Gateshead
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 10 July 18 16:19 BST (UK) »

Other details that I have:
Rejoined military in 1920 - probably RAF
Married Jessimond SOUTHERN (b1909 d 2001) in Liverpool, March 1929
Stationed at Shorncliff in Kent and daughter Elizabeth Mary smith born there 23 Sep 1930 (registered at Elham)
Second daughter Anna Christina Smith born at same place 24 Sep 1931 and then they are en route on the Dorsetshire destination India when the baby dies at sea (location I have found co-ordinates is near Jeddah in the Red Sea). I can't find them on conventional passenger lists but found the document on Find My Past on the British Armed Forces records of Overseas Deaths and Burials).  These also corroborate the family anecdotal evidence.
They must return from India soon after as twins are born and die in 1934 back at Shorncliffe. I then lose track of him until he pops up again enlisting at Leeds 5 Dec 1939 with the Royal Engineers and a new service number of 1887915.  He is discharged in 1941.

It is here that things are hazy.  He appears to desert his wife and daughter but is in touch with his mother Mary Ann (not sure of maiden name) who is living in Moseley, Birmingham area.  He apparently contacted her to ask to borrow money to set up a woodworking business.  He may or may not be living nearby.

And that is the last that any of the (living) family know!  All are keen to find out what became of him. He may have died but I cannot find records.  His wife may have done something legal to end the marriage as she re-marries in 1967 to Ernest Frederick Gillam. 

Any further help or hints to track him down and to find out his mother's maiden name would be welcomed.

Thank you  ;D


Mason-Norfolk
Maidment-Norfolk,Hampshire,Wiltshire,London
Moffat-Glasgow,Liverpool,Massachussets,Pennsylvania,Montreal,Ireland
Downing-Liverpool, Wirral, Derbyshire
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Chapman-Newport
Squire-Devon
Bancone-Italy, Poole, Newark New Jersey

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Re: Tracking down William Frederick Trotter Smith b1901 Gateshead
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 10 July 18 16:25 BST (UK) »
So he married as William F rather than William F T:-

Marriages Mar 1929   
Smith    William F    Southern    Liverpool    8b   81   
Southern    Jessimond    Smith    Liverpool    8b   81

Why are you so certain that this is the correct marriage?

To find out his mother's maiden name you could obtain his birth cert for which I gave details at Reply #1.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline rosie99

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Re: Tracking down William Frederick Trotter Smith b1901 Gateshead
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 10 July 18 16:40 BST (UK) »
Hi the only William F T Smith marriage I can locate was Sept qtr 1929 Lewisham 1d 2612 to a Phyllis G Cordock? Possible birth Dec qtr 1908 Woolwich as Phyllis Gwendoline Cordock who possibly remarried as Phyllis G Smith March qtr 1967 Cardiff to James F Cass.
Keyboard86

Birmingham Daily Gazette 25 October 1944
Report of bigamy between Corporal William F T Smith age 36 .  (wearing Military medal African Star) charged with marrying Mrs Grace E Hayman
Corporals legal wife was Phyllis Gwendoline Smith who he married in 1929 and ceased living together 11 years ago
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk