Author Topic: Patrick Walsh  (Read 582 times)

Offline daizedoo

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Re: Patrick Walsh
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 11 July 18 20:53 BST (UK) »
Thanks so much  :)

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Offline Owenwee

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Re: Patrick Walsh
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 11 July 18 22:15 BST (UK) »
The 1901 Census of Ballybrooney  shows 3 families of Walsh.

John Walsh 50 wife Mary and children. John married Mary Duggan in 1882 and his father was Patrick, witness was Patt Sweeney, their eldest child was Patrick, their daughter Agnes in census married in 1932 Balliiskerry Church a Patrick Durcan of Killala, her father was listed as John of Ballybrooney.

Michael Walsh 56 wife Catherine and children.  Michael married Catherine Sweeney I have been unable to find a marriage for this couple to confirm his fathers name. The eldest child was Patrick born in 1881, usually the eldest is called after the grandfather (not always though). If  you can find the marriage it well may confirm  Michael Walsh's father was Patrick also.

Its possible that Ann Walsh shown living in 1901 with son Michael was the wife of Patrick Walsh shown in the 1856 birth you have of your ancestor.  The marriage record you mention in 1875  the witness would not be the father Patrick this is normally a sibling or a cousin, Patrick is listed as  her father, the dates given on marriage records are not to be taken as accurate as with the census records, she would have been 20yrs old not underage,  normally over 21yrs is often shown as full age.

The 3rd family are brother and sister John Walsh and Mary the ages in Census 1901/1911 vary greatly another sister Ellen Gillespie widow living with them in 1911.




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Offline Owenwee

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Re: Patrick Walsh
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 11 July 18 22:47 BST (UK) »
The third family I mentioned John and sister Mary Walsh, I see from the 1911 census he is listed as John Anty, this means son of Anty.

 The 1850's Griffiths Valuation lists of Ballybroony show  4 Walsh men  Anthony, Michael, Patrick and Thomas.  I would say your Ann Walsh and John Walsh in 1901 census are siblings and more than likely Michael is also a sibling, hopefully you can find the marriage of Michael to confirm.

Offline daizedoo

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Re: Patrick Walsh
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 11 July 18 23:38 BST (UK) »
Owen, thank you so much for your information and help! I assumed the girl's parents (at least the father) would be witness to her marriage, since fathers usually give their daughters away?

If we have Anne's correct baptism, it shows Ed and Belinda Sweeny as sponsors.

I have a conversation going in a Mayo group on Facebook, and one gentleman said he found two baptisms for Anne's siblings; John in 24 July 1845 and Belinda in 14 Nov 1851. I wasn't able to see the records, nor find them. The Sweeny name, as well as Belinda seem like clues to me. Was Sweeny a common name?

Was there a naming tradition for the first daughter?

Offline daizedoo

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Re: Patrick Walsh
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 12 July 18 00:12 BST (UK) »

Michael Walsh 56 wife Catherine and children.  Michael married Catherine Sweeney I have been unable to find a marriage for this couple to confirm his fathers name. The eldest child was Patrick born in 1881, usually the eldest is called after the grandfather (not always though). If  you can find the marriage it well may confirm  Michael Walsh's father was Patrick also.


I found this blog post on Find My Past about traditional irish naming practices: https://blog.findmypast.ie/traditional-irish-naming-patterns-1406390648.html

Based on this, first son is after the paternal grandfather. Second is after maternal grandfather. Third son is after his father.

So for Michael's family in the 1901 census that also includes his mother Ann: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Rathoma/Ballybroony/1574819/

Patrick is the first born son, and Patrick would be Michael's father.
James is the second son. That would mean Catherine's father is named James
But John is the third son. He should be named Michael in this case.

I feel like most of my brick walls are going to have to be broken by common sense, irish traditions and trial and error!

Offline RJ137

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Re: Patrick Walsh
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 12 July 18 17:58 BST (UK) »


I have their marriage record. She was underage, and her father Patrick was a witness. (That's how I know his name, I know nothing else about him). Maria Walsh was also a witness, but cannot verify if she is Anne's mother or another family member.


Ann Coliins died in 1948.

CADI: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VPKS-CL6

Her death certificate list parents as Patrick Walsh & Ann (unknown). Her daughter Josephine was the informant.

Death Cert: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mcj/

=========

Son Michael died in 1940. His mother Ann was informant

Death Cert: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mck/

Offline RJ137

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Re: Patrick Walsh
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 12 July 18 18:01 BST (UK) »


-The Collins family lived in Chicago, Cook County, Illinois until Michael died, sometime before the 1910 Census.
-Anne and Michael had 5 more kids, born in the USA: Francis, Edward, Josephine, Kate, and Florence all born in Cook County, Illinois.
-By the 1920 Census, most of the Collins family had relocated to California.


Michael died in 1904.

In the 1900 census his address is listed as 3555 Princeton Av...Occupation carpenter.

1900 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSSG-899


Death: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2MQ-DD4G

Chicago Tribune
Chicago, Illinois
Tuesday, December 13, 1904 - Page 11

COLLINS Michael, husband of Ann. Funeral Tuesday, at 9 a.m., 3555 Princeton-av.. to Nativity church, carriages to Mount Olivet.

Offline daizedoo

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Re: Patrick Walsh
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 12 July 18 20:14 BST (UK) »


I have their marriage record. She was underage, and her father Patrick was a witness. (That's how I know his name, I know nothing else about him). Maria Walsh was also a witness, but cannot verify if she is Anne's mother or another family member.


Ann Coliins died in 1948.

CADI: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VPKS-CL6

Her death certificate list parents as Patrick Walsh & Ann (unknown). Her daughter Josephine was the informant.

Death Cert: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mcj/

=========

Son Michael died in 1940. His mother Ann was informant

Death Cert: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mck/

Great find, thanks so much for the death cert. Too bad they did not know her mother's maiden name, that would have been a huge help. At least I know her name was Ann, so more probability Michael is a brother.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Patrick Walsh
« Reply #17 on: Monday 20 August 18 19:45 BST (UK) »
Does the signature of Maria Walsh, witness to marriage of Anne Walsh 1875 have "Mrs" written after it or was it "pps" followed by priest's signature? I think the priest was Thomas Timlin.