Author Topic: Documents from 1633 - Latin  (Read 506 times)

Offline goldie61

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Documents from 1633 - Latin
« on: Saturday 14 July 18 11:41 BST (UK) »
This is the first page from a set of documents from 1633 which are cross referenced with the nuncupative will of Peter Mottram of Adlington from 1629.
There are some 5 pages for the 1629 will: the actual will, 2 affidavids from 2 of the men who took the will, an inventory, and a Latin document which I think is the probate for the eldest son, John.
The 1629 will mentions 3 sons of Peter’s - John, Thomas and William. Peter’s wife is named in the will, and also in the affidavids, as Katherine.

Then there are some 8 images for the 1633 set. Mostly in Latin. It’s obviously a dispute about something.
This is the first page. I can see John Mottram’s name as administrator for Peter Mottram, (about a third of the way down the page), but then it seems to mention a relict named Ellen. William Mottram is also named.

I’d be very grateful if somebody could give me the gist of this.
I can’t quite see how the set from 1629 and the set from 1633 are related, although they are definitely cross referenced on the Cheshire wills website. I’m obviously missing something! Perhpas Ellen was the wife of someone else? I have no information as to whether John was married, and in the 1629 will, both sons Thomas and William seem to still live at home - they are to keep a ‘chamber in the house’ after the death of Peter.

Any enlightenment gratefully received. I can post some more pages if it will help.
(All the images are on findmypast).
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Documents from 1633 - Latin
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 14 July 18 12:31 BST (UK) »
After just a quick look, the extract posted is the first page of a Judicial Sentence giving the court’s decision in a dispute between John Mottram, administrator of the estate of Peter Mottram, deceased, of Prestbury, and Ellen Mottram, widow and sole executrix of the will of William Mottram, deceased, of Ashton under Lyne.

This type of document doesn’t usually give details of the dispute itself, but the next page should state in whose favour the court has found. I’ll take a look online at the other pages and will come back later in the day.

Offline goldie61

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Re: Documents from 1633 - Latin
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 15 July 18 00:02 BST (UK) »
Ah thanks very much Bookbox.
So Ellen was the wife of William of Ashton under Lyne - I did not spot Aston under Lyne.

I think the dispute must have been about 20 pounds - I can see xx l.
There are  a couple of pages of accounts from Jan 1633 to Oct 1633, total 6l 8s 6d.
Can you tell what that's for? Is it to be deducted from the 20 pounds?

it's becoming a little clearer!  :)
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Documents from 1633 - Latin
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 15 July 18 00:03 BST (UK) »
The dispute is about a legacy of £20 allegedly left to Peter Mottram by his brother William Mottram.

William wrote his will on 10 September 1629 and left £20 to Peter. William’s executrix was his widow Ellen Mottram. Peter’s son John Mottram, who is administering his father’s estate, is trying to claim this legacy of £20, which remains unpaid. It is allegedly part of his father’s estate and needs to be accounted for in the administration.

The first part of the document shows that the court had originally found in favour of John Mottram, and against Ellen. But there was further investigation (maybe on appeal?), and more detail has come to light as a result. The subsequent pages of the document record the interrogatories -- setting out the questions put to each party and the responses (some are in English).

Finally, it turns out that the legacy of £20 to Peter Mottram was payable only if Peter survived his brother William for two years. But as Peter died within 12 weeks of William, the legacy was no longer chargeable to William's estate and was deemed void.

Ellen was therefore not compelled to make the payment, and John was made liable for the costs of bringing the case to court (a page of accounts is included).

I haven’t had time to translate every word, but I believe that is the essence of it.

I don’t know if you can find a will for William Mottram that might relate?


Offline Bookbox

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Re: Documents from 1633 - Latin
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 15 July 18 00:07 BST (UK) »
I did not spot Aston under Lyne.

It's written Ashton subter Line (page 1 line 14, and elsewhere).

Offline goldie61

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Re: Documents from 1633 - Latin
« Reply #5 on: Monday 16 July 18 07:46 BST (UK) »
Many thanks Bookbox for taking the time to read through the documents and sorting this out.

I have looked for the will of William Mottram in 1629 but can't see it anywhere.

Regards  :)


Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs