Bertha Fox nee Cliffe need help!!

[foxyloxy63]

Long shot but it might be worth noting the names of the other ladies living at that address to see who they were just in case it leads to anything you never know.

Yes I'll try research them and see if I can find anything that seems to make sense

[CaroleW]

Because she was living there in Oct 1925 and he married in Dec 1925

So 2 months after he is shown as living in Liverpool with Bertha - he marries under a different name and as a bachelor in Yorkshire having also taken the 2 children with him.   

I wonder if Bertha was not actually at that address in 1925 although shown on the register?

If Bertha was of sound mind at that time - he could/would not have taken the children so possibly she was already in a hospital/asylum or displaying symptoms (if that part of the story is true). 

I see your grandmother married as Fox - not Claire - in 1936

If William died in 1952 - he died just as William Claire - no middle name

 

[foxyloxy63]

Because she was living there in Oct 1925 and he married in Dec 1925

So 2 months after he is shown as living in Liverpool with Bertha - he marries under a different name and as a bachelor in Yorkshire having also taken the 2 children with him.   

I wonder if Bertha was not actually at that address in 1925 although shown on the register?

If Bertha was of sound mind at that time - he could/would not have taken the children so possibly she was already in a hospital/asylum or displaying symptoms (if that part of the story is true). 

I see your grandmother married as Fox - not Claire - in 1936

If William died in 1952 - he died just as William Claire - no middle name

Maybe I only know she was written as insane on Rhoda's admission papers. I didn't even know that she existed until about 6 years after my grandmother had passed away. She never spoke about her family so this is why I am finding it so difficult to put it all together.

[CaroleW]

Trying to come at it from a different angle

Bertha's brother Robert b 1891 married Josephine V Hollands in Wales in 1926 and in 1939 he is living in Hertfordshire where he died in 1958.  His wife was Josephine Violet born 1906 died  27.7.1982 Herts and left a will.  No children appear to have been born to them as I had hoped to find possible living relatives

[CaroleW]

I have found him on the 1891 in Liverpool as Will Fox.  All b Liverpool except where shown otherwise

John Fox 40 artist/sculptor
Alice 39
John 16
Isabella 19
James 15 b Dublin
Mary Jane 9
Will 4
Mary 2 (strange having 2 Mary’s)
Alice 11 b Ireland - Bray

In 1881 they have a daughter Elizabeth aged 9 whose age corresponds with Isabella aged 19 in 1891.  John is a plumber not an artist at that time

FreeBMD shows a marriage March qtr 1871 between John Fox and Alice Bennett.  It was 6.3.1871 @ St Nicholas Liverpool.  John was a plumber - father was also John occ plumber

Alice’s father was James occ stonemason

I cannot find any connection to the surname Claire to justify his change of name

Birth reg Sept qtr 1886 West Derby 8b 352 GRO search confirms mmn was Bennett

Absolutely none of which helps find a death for Bertha!!!

[CaroleW]

In 1901 father John aged 52 is an artist/painter

[CaroleW]

I now see that 1891 etc details are already known as you posted in 2012

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=628730.0

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Bertha is still alive in 1939, a patient in the County Mental Hospital, Winwick, Warrington. Ancestry have indexed her dob as 20 Mar 1868, but it's actually 1887, looking at the image (the second 8 is very squashed)

Earlier someone said "If Bertha was of sound mind at that time - he could/would not have taken the children"  I don't see why not.. When my grandparents split around 20 years later than this, my mother said it was considered very unusual that she lived  with her mother, not her father

[Mabel Bagshawe]

And a potential death

Bertha Fox
Death Age:    73
Birth    abt 1887
Q4  1960, Newton,   Lancashire Vol 10f, p24

Newton covers the Winwick area

Details of records for the hospital
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=1059&page=71