Author Topic: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher  (Read 35114 times)

Offline panished

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #63 on: Friday 12 October 18 21:22 BST (UK) »
 
You tell of this being your Woodward line down to Thomas Woodward 1820 and Mary Williams 1815.  well Emmanuel is with Joseph on thier travells in the record below, i know they are all related, no dout there is more to find, and i have found more and i will try and put some on tomorrow maybe or the next day, i will show you some good record storys with more connecting names and places.

And you say about them being  Gipsy Midland families, Yorkshire is not in the Midlands, Nottingham is, Sheffield is Yorkshire, South Yorkshire.

 Joseph Wilsher 1865 and Elizabeth Woodward 1863  Emmanuel Woodward 1842 and Mary Ann Allen 1845   Thomas Woodward 1820 and Mary Williams 1815.  .


 Derbyshire 1881
                                             
                                                  Bakewell Petty Sessions

                                             A Gipsy Encampment At Stoke 

Joseph Wiltshire, Attercliffe Common, summoned for making a bonfire on the side of the highway on the 26th of May in the parish of Stoke, to the danger of the public— Defendant did not appear. Sergeant Fern stated that he found the defendant camping at the side of the highway, there was within three feet from the side the road and 50 feet from the centre of the road a large fire, He told him he had been repeatedly warned and being of no use, he would summon him. Defendant was very abusive when spoken to about the illegality of this " ho" he replied "I know nineteen points of the law, and I,ll  teach you the twentieth." He was a low pot hawker and gipsy horse dealer. Cloths were hanging out to dry by the side of the road, and there appeared to be quite a small colony of the tribe camping on the side of the road with a roaring fire. Fined 2s. 6d 10s. 6d. costs.

                                          Keeping a Dog Without a Licence

The same defendant was also summoned for keeping a dog without a license at the same time and place as the above. Sergeant Fern proved the case and the Bench imposed penalty of 5s. 10d with 10s. 6d. costs

                                                Allowing a Horse to Stray.

A third summons was also issued against the same defendant for allowing a horse to stray on the highway, the parish of Sheldon on the 27th of May. Alcock proving the case said i was on the road leading from Ashford to Taddington, about 10.30 p.m.  When I came upon some horses straying in the road, and further on a large fire by the side of the road and two wagons. it appears that Wiltshire having removed from Stoke made his way to the picturesque valley of Taddington Dale where he pitched up his tent but he found no peace evan there.  fined 1s. and 10s. 6d. costs.
                                               
                                           Another Gipsy's Horse at Large.
 
Emmanuel Woodward, a gipsy hawker, traveling in the company of Wiltshire was summoned by P.c Alcock, of Taddington, for permitting  a horse to stray on the highway between Ashford and Taddington, on the 27th of May. .fined ls. and 10s. 6d. costs   

 

 Sheffield Independent Thursday 18 September 1884

Charge against Sheffield Men. — Yesterday, at the New Mills Police Court, two young men, named respectively as David Woodward and Thomas Willshaw, earthenware hawkers, residing in Broad street lane, Sheffield, were brought up on remand on a charge of obtaining by false pretences two goats, valued at £1. ls., from Ann Chatterton, at New Mills, on August 30th. Prisoners sold one of the goats to Hugh Crookes, a Sheffield poultry dealer, and were apprehended by the Sheffield police. They were defended by Mr. Broadsmith, solicitor, who contended that they were men of good character, and had been entrusted by the prosecutrix to sell the animals, but were arrested before they had an opportunity of restoring the money. After a hearing extending! over two hours, they were both committed for trial at the Sessions, but allowed bail in two sureties of £25 each.

Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #64 on: Friday 12 October 18 21:57 BST (UK) »
Is, Joseph Wilsher 1865 and Elizabeth Woodward 1863  Emmanuel Woodward 1842 and Mary Ann Allen 1845   Thomas Woodward 1820 and Mary Williams 1815...  Derbyshire 1881,  A census?

This would be the Woodward I speak of, Mary Ann Allen and Emmanuel Woodward are Elizabeth parents and Thomas Woodward and Mary William are her grandparents.

There are also a number of bothers and sisters to Elizabeth.

Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #65 on: Friday 12 October 18 22:10 BST (UK) »
The link I am researching and trying to prove at the moment is... Robert Winter 1828 married a Jane Wilshaw 1837, I believe Jane 1837 to be one of William Wilshaw 1811 child...

One of Jane/Robert Winter kids marries a Thomas Woodward, who I believe to be Elizabeth Woodward bother. I need to start purchasing certificates to prove or disprove the intermarrying tho.

Offline panished

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #66 on: Sunday 14 October 18 14:32 BST (UK) »
The Allens and Winters are more Gipsy Familys that are stated as being related to the people we are talking about, below is a few records I will put more on later


 Derby Daily Telegraph
Wednesday 13 July 1910

                                        GIPSIES SENTENCED FOR ROBBERY WITH
                                                              VIOLENCE

Three Gipsies, Joseph Allen, Sarah Allen, and Barbara Winter were sentenced at the Chester Assizes on Tuesday for robbing with violence David Woodward another Hawker, of £42. It was stated that Woodward went to their encampment to buy a caravan, and that in a dispute he was knocked senseless, and that whilst the woman held his hands Joseph Allen went through his pockets. Joseph Allen was sentenced to nine months imprisonment, Sarah Allen to six and Winter four.

If you read several other reports regarding this event, and not just the date stated above, you may find out more information that may help you in your research
(Their ages are mentioned)
(Tranmere as a closer location plus more information regarding the location of the camp site)
(It is stated that David Woodward was accompanied with his wife and the fight was among five Gipsies not three)
 (They had been to a Public House)   
(Information about the content of the fight)
(Sara Was Josephs Wife)
All this information may be used to help in a person’s research. Look at what we have.
A date.
Locations
Names
Relationship to the people present
On a more general note you may learn that they bought and sold to each other, now combine this information with the other records at your disposal and a far more informative picture starts to appear, remember many records will have faults if not lies in them, you need everything, evan then you must place doubt as a true tool of guidance.

THE SHEFFIELD DAILY TELEGRAPH
THURSDAY 25 NOVEMBER
1869
ASSAULTS.-Joseph Willsher and Thomas Willsher, Pot Hawkers, Attercliffe, were charged with assaulting David Allen, of Brampton Moore, near Chesterfield. Mr. Sugg appeared for the prosecution, and Mr. Chambers defended. On Tuesday afternoon prosecutor was in the horse fair when he was struck by the prisoner Joseph, and the brother kicked him whilst he was on the ground. He was cruelly ill-used, and was rendered unfit to follow his occupation. The bystanders sent for a Policeman, and the prisoners ran away, but were apprehended under a warrant.-The Magistrates were of the opinion that a savage assault had been committed, and the prisoners were ordered to be imprisoned in the House of Correction for two months each.

Again you just need to look out for the guiding clues.

Attercliffe…..  This is a place of the Wilshers of long ago
Chesterfield….Brampton…. read my other writings
Level of Violence…. This I will explain soon, maybe in a few posts time… a must Read... the truth.
... Do not forget go back to page five on this thread and read about Joseph Wiltshire robbing David Allen the pot hawker.


Offline panished

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #67 on: Sunday 14 October 18 14:34 BST (UK) »
Derbyshire 1911
Identifying a Fowl
Brampton Men Accused of Theft at Ridgeway.

 A mystery surrounding the disappearance of a Ridgeway farmer’s fowl resulted in two Chesterfield men, named Thomas and John Woodward, van dwellers of Rodney Yard, Brampton, being arrested. It was, stated, however, at the  Eckington Police Court, on Monday, when the two men were brought up. that a fowl, which was found in their possession had been given to them. The fowl which was said to have been stolen belonged to Lewis Taylor, of Stuben Hill Farm. Ridgeway. On March 27 he said, he missed a fowl, similar to the one produced in Court. Florence Edith Poile. married woman, of Ridgeway, said that she saw the two with a trap, and she noticed one of them pick something up off the road. When the man got up again, she added, she noticed that he had got a fowl. He wrung its neck and put the bird in a cart. P.c. Hudson stated that he went to Brampton and saw' the men, Woodwards, and found that the men were the men. who had been to Ridgeway buying old iron. When interrogated, John admitted they had stolen a fowl from Ridgeway, and eaten it. Later, however, he said, it was in the house, and produced it. on the way to the police station John declared that a woman named Mrs. Fidler gave them the fowl. Mr. A. J. Hopkins, of Chesterfield, who defended, pointed out that the only evidence the prosecution had brought was that of the prosecutor, who could only identify the fowl produced in Court by the head and legs. a lad named William Mitchell, employed by Mrs. Fidler. declared that he caught a fowl on the instructions of Mrs. Fidler, and gave it to John Woodward. The bird was "sick” and they did not expect it would live. Mrs. Fidler corroborated this story and evidence having been given by the men Woodward, who denied the charges, Bench gave them the benefit of the doubt and dismissed the case.

 

Offline panished

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #68 on: Sunday 14 October 18 14:43 BST (UK) »
                                                                 BRAMPTON
                                                            THE RODNEY YARD

https://picturethepast.org.uk/image-library/image-details/poster/dccc001305/posterid/dccc001305.html


The Rodney Yard Brampton near Chesterfield is one of the old stopping Grounds where lots of my Mothers Relatives passed through over many years of travel, it as long since gone but by using the maps online it is easily found, if you go back in the posts I have wrote on rootschat you will find more information, Rodney Yard the Peoples and their Story's must be remembered and preserved for the future Generations, i never new of this place nor did I ever hear my Mother say She new, then one day I found it, I to have found many interesting story's of the history and the Peoples that connect in many ways to Brampton. 

 At the back of the Bold Rodney Public House, there once was a Great Yard, this became a place that Gipsies who like the Wiltshire's who roamed over several Counties  temporally used as a place to keep their Caravans, this yard in time became to, a sort of a settled community to all types of Hawkers and People, some of the times are of great sadness, others, well Gipsies I have found somehow possess in their life the Greatest of humour,
this place is rich in history, you can find the People I write about well back into the 1800s, and forwards to the 1930s, there to are many Big Names and story's of People like the Lees and Smiths who stopped there, I found true story's to of the Woodward's and Wiltshire's, there is much to learn from the story of Brampton, I was told the new building on the site of the old yard were erected in the 1990s.

I found and have spoken to People who lived and grew up around this place and through my research on the internet and oral history of this time in researching I have found there were several things that all came together to make Brampton the hub for the Gipsies over hundreds of years .
 In the fields around Brampton there is a very special clay that was dug from the earth to make pots, mugs bowls and the like, it was renowned for its looks as the unique Chesterfield Earthenware, also there was an abundance of local coal that was next to the clay fields, they the People of Chesterfield then made many many places to make pots, also there were natural waterways that ran through this place that provided the water needed in the process of manufacture of the pots than intern were fired in the kilns, it was a special place where everything in nature came together to create this hub, a place Gipsies found and exploited, I have found much information about the history of clay, coal , waterways and all the peoples, the Gipsies were one of those Peoples, I do know some of you on rootschat have spoken of not all pot dealers are Gipsies, I to have found your research to be true.
 I remember how the Great Men I found in the 1700s the Herons and the Boswells, and how the Boswell Man said of Himself He was a Man who went about the Country selling mugs, I have researched and read much up of the history of Scotland over hundreds of years, through this research long ago Gipsies became known as Muggers for being People who sell pots and mugs,  then down through the years it became a bad name to be called a Mugger, but really the very old Gipsies were the Muggers for it was them who sold the mugs and pots, I have read Great information about the times that supports this from long ago, it was none Gipsies who called the Old Gipsies muggers, then years later mugger became a rallying cry for others to say you dirty muggers are not real Gipsies, I think through my research people alive now have been influenced by the wrong teachings of others, this is my view through reading the old accounts of the greatest of minds and writers, unknown to many and who's words of history are hidden in dusty papers and silenced, so Brampton its story's and history, may be used as an example, these storys will be replicated around Britain, you will find your People, you will find their history, many many Horses and trades were needed in the history of Brampton.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjTwv3u9rzSAhUiJcAKHaIFCMEQFggoMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mernick.org.uk%2FBrownJugs%2FBrampton%2FBrampton.htm&usg=AFQjCNGiZeMxMJ36YsM0a8Iejut9bipcRQ

There are many more research storys from around Brampton, you will hear how they stop and travel between Sheffield Dronsfield Worksop Mansfield Shirebrook and all connecting Towns and Villiages, you must collect everything, a clue that seams of no consequence when combined with other such clues leads you ever onwards to yet more discovery's, everything must be collected and saved, annualised and brought forth and used as new evidence is found, never dismiss anything, you will be surrounded by falsehood's and mistakes, never trust a census as genuine, use the census as a guide then make your own mind up, if you place great faith in the census reports as tottaly genuine you are but lazy researchers who are just looking for results and history and people of the future will look on you as such, put everything to the test, for if you are wrong at least it is your mistake and no falt of another, i will do my best for everyone who as an interest and of course relations who like me look for that which is unknown. I will do my best.

Offline janeo

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #69 on: Tuesday 16 October 18 23:26 BST (UK) »
my 2nd great grandmother was Lydia Wiltshire ,she married my 2xgreatgrandad Thomast Elliott
NameLydia WeltshierGenderFemaleAge18Event TypeMarriageBirth Yearabt 1838Marriage Date22 May 1856Marriage PlacePeterborough, St John, Northamptonshire,SpouseThomas Elliote
NameAge
Name
Thomas Elliote
Name
William Elliote
Name
Lydia Weltshier
Name
Joseph Weltshier
Smith, Wilson ,Elliot ,Ratchford Burnside ,

Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #70 on: Wednesday 17 October 18 00:16 BST (UK) »
my 2nd great grandmother was Lydia Wiltshire ,she married my 2xgreatgrandad Thomast Elliott
NameLydia WeltshierGenderFemaleAge18Event TypeMarriageBirth Yearabt 1838Marriage Date22 May 1856Marriage PlacePeterborough, St John, Northamptonshire,SpouseThomas Elliote
NameAge
Name
Thomas Elliote
Name
William Elliote
Name
Lydia Weltshier
Name
Joseph Weltshier

Hello there, small world hey?
Have you purchased the Elliot family tree book? It has what I believe to be your Lydia on the tree, the names and dates match.

This marriage  is on the other side of the tree from what I'm researching ATM, I plan on doing that part at a later date. I would happy swop emails, also I am interested in any and all stories you have of this family/photos. That your willing to share.

Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #71 on: Wednesday 17 October 18 00:29 BST (UK) »
So I finally made contact with Gloria,

I will not go in to too much detail, but she is a direct relation to me... Her grandmother Florence Meakin is my great granfather's Joseph Wilsher 1907 atb half sister.

Mary Amelia Earl 1885 married in to the traveller life style, and had two kid with two different partners. The father to Joseph is unknown to her.

I was unable to find a birth certificate to Joesph Wilsher 1907 atb. It's believed he was born in a caravan when they were traveling. As there was no register office around, they did not bother to register his birth lol.

This really has been a journey, with much, much more to go. Bringing life to long lost people and their life's has been nice.