Author Topic: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher  (Read 2413 times)

Offline skyshot1990

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 16 August 18 16:43 BST (UK) »
Hi again, I see Joseph H b 1929 was also registered as Joseph H Grogan mmn Waddingham, also births 1924 to 1928 Nottingham Grogan/Waddingham.
Keyboard86

I've just looked it up, the dates match both the two kids which seems extremely strange, were you able to register children more than once in those days ?? 

I found a burial register for Joseph Wilsher 1928, on it the name of person buried was Joseph Wilsher. I may have to purchases these certificates and work out what is going on here, it all seems extremely odd. 

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline keyboard86

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,044
    • View Profile
Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 16 August 18 16:58 BST (UK) »
Hi again, the Joseph Wilshire registered June qtr 1928 v 7b 600 was also identical to a Joseph Grogan in 1928?
Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline skyshot1990

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 16 August 18 17:03 BST (UK) »
Hi again, the Joseph Wilshire registered June qtr 1928 v 7b 600 was also identical to a Joseph Grogan in 1928?
Keyboard86

Yes they both seem to be a perfect match for register numbers but have a different last name, which seem extremely strange to say the least... This Laura Waddingham has become a person of interest, all documents I have looked over upto now have stated the name Joseph Wilsher, so this Grogan name seems extremely weird.

Offline keyboard86

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,044
    • View Profile
Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 16 August 18 18:18 BST (UK) »
Hi again, cannot at present locate the death in 1928 Nottingham of a Joseph Wilshire on GRO Index, but located one for Joseph Grogan Sept qtr 1928 Nottingham v7b 321 aged 0?
Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline skyshot1990

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 16 August 18 18:30 BST (UK) »
Hi again, cannot at present locate the death in 1928 Nottingham of a Joseph Wilshire on GRO Index, but located one for Joseph Grogan Sept qtr 1928 Nottingham v7b 321 aged 0?
Keyboard86

Joseph Henry Wilsher 1929 died in Somerset and is my granddad, he died in 2009... The Joseph Wilsher 1928, Died 1928 at 5 months old. I have the birth and death certificates for both kids and even have the burial register for the Joseph Wilsher 1928.   

Offline keyboard86

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,044
    • View Profile
Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 16 August 18 18:37 BST (UK) »
Hi again, what is the volume/page number of the Joseph Wilsher Death 1928 was it 7b 321?
Keyboard86

 :) After altering the surname to WILSHER he has same volume/page number as Joseph Grogan.
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline skyshot1990

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 19 August 18 07:29 BST (UK) »
I think I may of found the first real bit of information on Joseph Wilsher,

1939 England and Wales Register, Schedule Number 363, 8 storer street Nottingham

There is a Joseph Wilshire-born 1907-Hawker, Margaret Chesman-born 1907-Hospital Cleaner, and what seems to be a 3rd person blacked out. I believe this 3rd person to be my granddad Joseph Henry Wilsher 1929.

I am sending off the death certificate next week, too see if I am able to get the blacked out information removed, I believe this to be the family because the dates fit, area is about right and Maggie could be a abbreviation for Margaret.

If this turns out to be correct, there are still many questions unanswered  but it will be a solid lead...

Offline skyshot1990

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 19 August 18 17:20 BST (UK) »
I've found news paper reports matching both the Joseph Wilsher and Joseph Henry Wilsher, Living at a 8 storer street Nottingham, the birth age for Joseph Wiltshire would match Joseph Wilsher 1929, It seems even the news papers use Wilsher or Wiltshire, where as on the census it has Wilshire. The last name seems to change at the drop of a hat.

This would date Joseph Wilsher Birth atb 1904-1907 and death still unknown.


“... I met a few pals at the cricket match and we celebrated,” the magistrates at the Nottingham Guildhall were told to-day by Joseph Wilsher, 39, a hawker, of 8, Fairholme-terrace, who had been found lying on the pavement in Bridlesmith-gate ...”
 
02 July 1946 - Nottingham Evening Post - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England


“... garage office which had , r , an, acked. Behind a desk, it * alleged at Nottingham Guildhall. ,?'*?■ he found 18-year-old Joseph Henry Wiltshire, of 8 Fairham Storer-street. Nottingham. Wiltshire was charged with break and entering the garage and realm ...”
 
30 July 1947 - Nottingham Evening Post - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England



“... the companionship of thieves. • REFUSED TO QUIT INN Nottingham Hawker's Costly Half - Holiday Joseph Wiltshire (34), hawker, 8. Fairholme - terrace, Storer - street, Nottingham was fined £1 at Nottingham Police Court yesterday for refusing to quit lice ...”
 
12 October 1938 - Nottingham Journal - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

Offline panished

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 533
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 19 August 18 18:01 BST (UK) »
Hi

This could be the two Wiltshire’s that you are talking about, Old Joe sounds just like one of the old Barrow Boys, Street Traders, Hawking Fruit, I have records of other People around Nottingham, with the same names that you write about, local Wiltshires, in my researchers, in Town Village and City i have come across Wilshaws Willshires Wilshers Welshires who are just locals, these two Josephs below are quite tame, also they live at the same address, for some time to, you said the Wiltshire’s you write about were three generations out of the travelling times, there are families of local Wiltshire’s I have researched, the people you write about may also be just locals, you say you have read my posts, in them you will of read of many Josephs and Henrys, they are all around Camp sites and moving about often in big Family units with several wagons, some have shops in Nottingham as Marine Store Dealers, if you can connect back to these people that woman of mystery who said these two Josephs below came out of the older travelling Wiltshire’s may well be telling the truth, but again they are well tame especially the older Joseph, but like you say three generations is a long time, you never know i am sure you have much to tell, you have to be careful tho about what somone is suposed to have said yeares ago, there are people out there who tottaly fabricate storys, twist them for all kinds of reasons, just be careful, trust in the truth, its a great story, you have worked hard and collected much information, you are doing a fine job, you say you was never told anything about anything, evan if you find things, evan if things that you research turn out to be true, true again, it will always be just written records of the past, how will you ever understand, evan the greatest of researchers in this time as well as the past fail right at that moment when they think their hands are full.

Nottingham Press

There is a Joseph Wiltshire who was 34 years of age in 1938, he is stated as being a Hawker, he lived at Fairholme- terrace, Storer-Street, Nottingham, several times by now he was up for drunkenness, in 1947 at 8 Fairham Terrace, Storer-Street, he is stated as being a Street Trader, charged with obstruction with his hand barrow, also in the same year at 8 Fairholme- terrace, Storer-Street and most likely Josephs Son, is the one and only Joseph Henry Wiltshire, 18 years of age that i think maybe could be the person you write about, he is up for breaking and entering, in 1936 at a different address of Page Street, there is a man known as a Fruiterer, he was found drunk in his car and trailer, he goes by the name of Joseph Wiltshire, in 1946 Joseph Wilsher is said to be 39, known as a Hawker, living at 8 Fairholme- terrace, Storer-Street he was found flat out lying on the pavement in Bridle-smith Gate, and had to be taken to hospital, the Magistrate had a laugh at the situation and let him of,  commenting,
 “and I understand it wasn’t it strong enough,”  i have to say the address of Storer Street is bang on the money, so many of my Mothers relations lived and died around that area, some of the greatest ever to set foot in this City of mine, real ledgends, my Mother was born but a stones throw away, if you would like to know about this place have a look at this web site, there are many photos of the area.  https://stannswellroad.weebly.com/hawksworth-st-storer-st-to-clarence-st.html

You write of a connection to Derby, i have read stories of these Grogans below connected to Nottingham.

Derby Press

A  much wrote about family the Grogans, they seem mainly to live around Goodwin Street, if you read many of the reports most will say several numbers on Goodwin Street, or back of an house on Goodwin Street, in 1950 john Grogan 56 years old is living in a caravan, in 1935 john Grogan is 41 living at Bates Lodging House, Nuns-Street, and stated as being a scissor grinder, in 1931 john Grogan is 29 and stated as being a cutler of no fixed abode, there are some very bad crimes that are talked about over the years in Derby.


Nottingham Press

There is a John Grogan, 28, Hawker of the famouse nortoriouse Red Lion-Street, Narrow-Marsh, Nottingham, again in 1930 at the same address yet this time they give the house number as 73, and the age of 30, again from the same address in 1931 he is said to be 27 and the trade of a cutler, it is stated that he has been before the courts 30 times and is a dangerous man, ln 1933 John Grogan is said to be 37 years of age, described as a poacher now living at Barker Gate, in the Seven Stars Lodging House, he is up for Police assault, in the paper it is stated that John Grogan is one of the most violent men in Nottingham,
 in 1950 Samuel Grogan, 25, a dealer of 142 Glaisdale-drive was charged with stealing coal then a year later he beats up his wife plus his girlfriend be course the girlfriend would not porn the wife’s wedding ring, in 1895 Arthur Grogan up for deserting his wife and not Paying maintenance,
again at the same address of 3 Plait Street in 1899 his title is that of a basket-maker.

Again these are just reported records, who everyone is and are any of them connected, i do not know, i am around Nottingham for all of my life and never have i heard of no one named Grogan, nor have any stories of the fruit hawking Wiltshires been passed down, you may well be right, you may well be wrong, i am sure you will do your best, the stage is yours.