Author Topic: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher  (Read 2712 times)

Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #45 on: Sunday 16 September 18 18:30 BST (UK) »
My Latest clue to my mysterious Joseph Wilsher 1907 atb.

The image is copied from ROMANY ROUTES VOL 7 NO 1.DEC 2004

So I was send this image by a person out of the Wilsher/Wiltshire traveller blood line, who has been helping me a great amount in my research. What do you guys think, am I on the right line of thought?

Death certificate 1957, Joseph Wiltshire other wise Meakin, age 50, place Nottingham, occupation street hawker, death by inhaling stomach content.

-This death certificate is who I believe to be my Joseph Wilsher 1907 atb. The occupation match, the area given as death is about the same area as 8 storer street(1939 census), and the age match. I was always told drink is what killed him, this certificate did interest me because of the "other wise Meakin", which I have never come across before. I will send a copy off to a Margo who lived next door to him, for addition confirmation. When I asked Margo on the phone about the date of death before purchasing this certificate, she believed it to be around the right date.


Mary Amelia Earl 1884 atb
Birth register 1885, place Lewisham kent
Baptism 1885, place Lewisham kent
Marriage 1902, place Leicester, Uriah Meakin and Marry Amelia Earle

Census 1911-Chesterfield
Thomas Blair, Birth 1842 atb, Ireland, occupation Callery Grinders
Mary Ann Blair, Birth 1844, Leicestershire, England
Vriah Blair(Uriah Meakin), Birth 1881 atb, Brampton Derbyshire, occupation hakwer
Flarrie Blair(Florrie Meakin), Birth Nottingham 1903 atb

Census 1911-Rotherham
Henry Wilcher, birth 1888 atb, Sheffield Yorkshire, occupation crockery hawker
Mary Wilcher, birth 1884 atb, Lewisham kent
Joseph Wilcher, birth 1907 atb, Sheffield Yorkshire


-Mary Amelia Earl and Mary Wilcher one and the same?
If the information on the image is correct, it would be fair to believe that Mary Amelia earl and Mary Wilcher are one and the same... The Place of birth and date of birth would all match and even the child's name too. If this is correct the next question would be, Who is this Henry Wilcher?

-On the 1911 census for Vriah(Uriah Meakin/blair), Mary seems to be no longer with this family which also points to the Wilcher census.


He seems to Vanish just as fast as he turns up, it would increasingly seem that Joseph Wilsher 1907 atb may in fact, come out of the midlands Gypsy family, but I believe I have much more up hill battles to prove or disprove who he really is. In the coming weeks I will order the certificates for Marry Meakin and see what addition information I can find.

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Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #46 on: Thursday 20 September 18 16:26 BST (UK) »
Addition to my confirmed information, 1939 census unlocked for Joseph Henry Wilsher 1929. I was told by Margo this was correct but wanted it as fact.

Thank you for your Freedom of Information request to search the 1939 Central Register for Joseph Henry Wilshire.

I am pleased to inform you that our search of the 1939 Central Register has been successful.
The entry is found within The National Archives catalogue reference: RG 101/
This relates to Borough, County: Nottingham, Nottinghamshire
Enumeration District Letter Code: RMDA
Registration District and Sub-district: 430.2

Please find below a transcription of the information contained in each column of the register reading from left to right in sequence:
1: Address: 8 Fairholme Terrace
2: Schedule Number: 363
3: Sub Schedule Number: 3
4: Surnames and other Names: Wilshire, Joe
5: O V S P or I (Officer, Visitor, Servant, Patient or Inmate) Not applicable
6: Gender: Male
7: Birth Day/Month: Unknown amended to 30 July
8: Birth Year: 1930 amended to 1929
9: S M W or D (Single, Married, Widowed or Divorced): S
10: Personal Occupation: At school
11: Any detail in the Instructions Column: None

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Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #47 on: Sunday 23 September 18 10:21 BST (UK) »
A little story told from a settled person from the Wilsher/Wiltshire/Wilshaw/Wilshire Traveller family...

"Joseph Wilshire (born 1865)  would spend hours making rabbit nets and selling them, but he also sold  carpets, linos, furniture and he remembers him with his horse and cart delivering furniture and carpets etc to peoples houses. They also had a shop on Carlton Hill."



Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #48 on: Sunday 23 September 18 18:50 BST (UK) »
I thought I would update you on my ancestry DNA,

I was matched to a Gloria Bradshaw as a Possible range 4th-6th cousin with Confidence: Very high and a Holmes Possible 4th – 6th cousin with Confidence Good.

I believe Gloria Bradshaw to be the person who writ the Romany routes article. It named Mary Amelia Earl/Meakin/Watts giving birth to a Joseph Wilsher 1907 atb, I believe Gloria to be a relation to Florence Meakin. I have messaged her, and now waiting for a reply.

Holmes granny was one Rebecca Wilsher 1897 who married John Holems 1891(Both Gpysy familys), I have been talking to them even before the DNA results, Rebecca was mention in the article Gloria F Bradshaw writ for Romany Routes, as settling in Nottingham along with Joseph 1907 atb.

This would Increasing point to Joseph 1907atb being part of the Wilsher Gypsy family, the missing gap I believe would be who’s child Henry Wilsher 1888 atb is. This has been long winded and dragged out and I believe there is even more to go... But hard work and luck is paying off.


Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #49 on: Wednesday 26 September 18 16:28 BST (UK) »
"Sarah Wilsher 1900 atb was the child of Joseph Wilsher 1865 and Elizabeth Woodward 1866 atb, both Elizabeth and Joseph were travellers settling in Nottingham.

Sarah Wilsher 1900 atb married John T Lewis 1899 in Nottingham 1917, Sarah and John both worked Sneinton market... Sarah Wilsher's Family sold carpets and John Lewis's Family Sold Fruit."

I was told this small story, and it really did make me think. My Joseph Wilsher 1907 atb has occupation as fruit also carpet hawker on certificates, and he 100% worked Sneinton market. I can only wonder the relationship they may of had with one another...

Some food for thought and information for any one who may be looking for this family.

Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #50 on: Tuesday 09 October 18 18:36 BST (UK) »
Joseph Wilsher 1957 death certificate

Margo believes the Joseph, 1957 death certificate to be correct. Joseph 1907 atb died of uncontrollable sickness because of drink...

"Joseph Wilsher 1907 atb would work Sneinton market, 2 times a week. He would earn enough money in 2 days, to allow him too drink for the rest of the week."


Mary Earl/Meakin certificates

So I had the Birth,Marriage and child's certificates turn up for Mary Earl/Meakin.

Other then some small errors like Earl Birth/Earle marriage, and Formerly Price on Florence Meakin Birth. It would seem the certificates dates/places/names match the Romany routes article 2004,
and the 1911 census:
Henry Wilcher, 1888 atb,Sheffield
Mary Wilcher,1884 atb, Lewisham
Joseph Wilcher, 1907 atb, sheffield


Mary Earl born 1885, Lewisham, Kent. She travelled to the Midlands, there she married Uriah Meakin 1881 in Leicester 1902, and has a child called Florence Meakin 1903 Nottingham. She then has a another child with Henry Wilsher called Joseph Wilsher 1907 atb Sheffield.


Samuel Grogan 1924


Also another half bother of Joseph Wilsher 1929 has been found, Samuel Grogan 1924 was the Child of John Grogan 1908 atb and Laura Waddingham 1904.



 

Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #51 on: Wednesday 10 October 18 15:32 BST (UK) »
1939 - Nottingham launched its slum Clearance scheme and, as part of that, five streets in the market area: Finch street, Sheridan street, Brougham street, Lucknow street and Pipe street were demolished. This gave the Sneinton market an additional 2 3/4 acres- more than twice the previous area.

Nottingham Evening Post - Thursday 09 August 1923
"DESERVED WHAT SHE GOT."
MAGISTRATE'S REMARK ASSAULT CASE. •

At the Guildhall to-day, Mary Ann BrierJey, 2. Lewis-place, Ranchfte-street, Nottingham, charged Harriet Paddock, 25, housewife, 36, Pipestreet, and Joseph, alias Jim, Wiltshire, 50. described by the police as a poacher, of 6, Gedlingstreet., with assault. Mr. A. F. (defending) suggested that Bnerley was roiling drunk, and injured herself falling. Complainant: Certainly not, sir. I had my senses me. Was you there? Mr. Heane: No. I was not. lam glad to say. But I have several witnesses who were. Brierley having no witnesses, the chairman (Mr. W. Davi?) said Mr. Heane need not waste his time calling those for the defence. Complainant deserved all she got. She should keep away from »uch people and such places (public houses). The case was dismissed.


Harriet Paddock- I believe Harriet Paddock to be Harriet Wilsher, sister of Sarah Wilsher 1900, also daughter of Joseph Wilsher 1865, and Elizabeth Woodward 1863.

Harriet Wilsher born 1897, married Oliver Paddock in 1914, remarried Fred Ballington in 1949.
Father Joseph Wilsher 1865 and Mother Elizabeth Woodward 1863.

Joseph Wilsher 1907 atb/Laura Waddingham 1904

Birth-Joseph Wilsher 1928, 22 pipe Street
Death-Laura Waddingham 1931, 7 Lucknow street

"Elizabeth Wilshire/Woodward also lived for a while in Piper Street, a lot of the Wilshires lived with each other and went from house to house to live"

As like Sarah Wilsher 1900, working Sneinton market selling Carpets, more of the same direct family are in and around my Joseph Wilsher 1907 atb. Interestingly Joseph Wilsher 1865 is the uncle of Rebecca Wilsher 1897. Rebecca Wilsher, being mentioned in Romany routes article 2004 as settling in Nottingham along with Joseph Wilsher 1907 atb... One question leads to many more.


As a side thought, is Joseph, alias Jim, Wiltshire of 6-Gedling street in facted Joseph Wilsher 1865??

Joseph 6-Gedling street has a shop selling Cloths,Wardorbes, Gedling street road is straight off the demolished slum Clearance scheme streets too. The age is slightly out on the news reports, but it could well be... I may just have to wait for the 1921 census to turly know.






Offline panished

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #52 on: Wednesday 10 October 18 20:31 BST (UK) »
https://picturethepast.org.uk/image-library/image-details/poster/ntgm000508/posterid/ntgm000508.html

 I found records of the Woodwards and Wiltshires, the Paddocks are Hawkers in Nottingham there is a John Paddock who lived with a Gertrude Woodward and he was up for stealing an horse from a John Woodward, Oliver Paddock who you say is married to a wiltshire was on the rob with William Wiltshire, they robbed a safe, its a funny story for they tryed to smash it open with an hammer, i have lots of records from all over the shires, i was born just over from Gedling Street, it is on the border of St Anns, this area is where lots of them lived, i know every inch and yard of thoes places if you go on the web  "Picture the Past" just type in any of the old Street names and you will see how the place looked.

Click on the link above and you will see were Joseph lived, look up to the top of the Street on the photo and that is Sneinton Market at the top, if you were to go a few hundred yards further you will find the next place they lived the storer Street area, that is the edge of St Anns that borders Sneinton, i was born just a few hundred yards if you take a right turn when you are looking at the photo, i have many many record storys of many of the Wilshers Wiltshires Wilshaws around this part of Nottingham, it came as a massive suprise to me to see how many of them lived around the same area, i will put as much as i have on here so other people in the future will learn of them when they try to find out about their Family, i never new their was so many of them, there is lots more than just the ones you have found, i know you have already done lots of research, you will also  find them on their travels from Yorkshire over to newark Retford Worksop Mansfield Sutton and Nottingham, evan more to, this all around the same time of the Joseph living at Gedling street, most of them where still roming all over and then coming into Nottingham, i have dozens of records that i have collected over about three years or so, you have wrote to me again on the P.M, thank you for showing me about the Boylings and names like the Alans, i will show you also how they link up to in storys that i have found, the Alans Elliotts Heapes Woodwards Knights Holmes Smiths Boylings Winters and more Familys are Related in the things i have found, dont forget there is multiple first names like Joseph in the same generation, they were still visiting Nottingham from the Sheffield way right high into the 1900s, right up around the times of worled war two, i will put some storys on soon, i know you have read all my writings on the Dan Boswell Pagers when i talk of these things.     

Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #53 on: Wednesday 10 October 18 21:06 BST (UK) »
https://picturethepast.org.uk/image-library/image-details/poster/ntgm000508/posterid/ntgm000508.html

 I found records of the Woodwards and Wiltshires, the Paddocks are Hawkers in Nottingham there is a John who lived with a Gertrude Woodward and he was up for stealing an horse from a John Woodward, Oliver was on the rob with William Wiltshire, they robbed a safe, its a funny story for they tryed to smash it open with an hammer, i have lots of records from all over the shires, i was born just over from Gedling Street, it is on the border of St Anns, this area is were lots of them lived, i know every inch and yard of thoes places if you go on the web site i put on, "Picture the Past", just type in any of the old Street names and you will see how the place looked,

Picture the past is a brilliant website, its where I purchased my Lucknow photo, they had one the same year of the death of my great grandmother, it really did make me think how they must of lived. I have slowly been building a Elizabeth Woodward tree, currently at Thomas Woodward 1820 atb. Not sure their connections to the other Woodward tho.

I will slowly start putting more information up as time past. I am putting a extreme amount of time, in placing my missing link atm. I have built a number of trees... Mainly been researching the William Wilsher 1811 and Lydia Jones 1812 Family lines atm.

I was always just told stories of travellers, and it was always a deeply held belief of my family we came from that culture, as a child I was taken on to new age and Romany traveller sits, by my father... He built connections with gypsy and travellers in the south west. In my teens I even had female traveller friends who had settled. My father has always believed it as fact, I have always been on the fence... I do plan in time to learn a style of Romany talk.