Author Topic: Catherine Ryan  (Read 850 times)

Offline BumbleB

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Re: Catherine Ryan
« Reply #9 on: Friday 03 August 18 17:59 BST (UK) »
Age of Catherine Ryan/McDonnell/Barlow on official records:
1840 marriage - minor. ( A minor was a person under 21. Minimum age of marriage for a girl was 12.)
1841 census - age 20.  (1841 Census enumerators were instructed to round down ages of adults and anyone over 15 to nearest multiple of 5. Not all did. A person whose age in 1841 census enumerator's book was 20 may have been aged 20-24. Catherine's husband, William also had his age recorded as 20. William stated his age as 21 or over at his marriage the previous year. Census was in July 1841.)
1852 2nd marriage - age 39. Her spouse, Bryan Barlow also stated his age as 39.
1861 census  -  age 40
1871 census  -  age 47
1881 census -  age 59

Each census after 1841 was taken in March or April.

Are you sure of ages on marriage certificate for Catherine's marriage to Bryan Barlow? If she was a minor at her 1st marriage she would more likely to have been in her early 30s at 2nd marriage.
She may not have known her exact age.

I haven't looked at this thread before ( I have no knowledge at all of Irish records)  but I have been trying to help out elsewhere - I have come to exactly the same conclusion - for some reason the ages at marriage have been increased by 10 years  :o
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Online Maiden Stone

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Re: Catherine Ryan
« Reply #10 on: Friday 03 August 18 18:01 BST (UK) »
Have you looked at the Ryan family who were on Bennet St. on 1841 census when Catherine and her husband were also there? If you think this was or may have been Catherine's birth family, follow it  through each subsequent census in the hope that one person may have been specific about their place of birth in Ireland. At present all you have is a county.

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Offline BumbleB

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Re: Catherine Ryan
« Reply #11 on: Friday 03 August 18 18:06 BST (UK) »
With the exception of the 1851 census - said to be born in Scotland - and the 1881 census - born in Kilkenny - all other census entries are "Ireland"  :-X
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
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Online Maiden Stone

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Re: Catherine Ryan
« Reply #12 on: Friday 03 August 18 18:19 BST (UK) »
I haven't looked at this thread before ( I have no knowledge at all of Irish records)  but I have been trying to help out elsewhere - I have come to exactly the same conclusion - for some reason the ages at marriage have been increased by 10 years  :o

Maybe priest who was hard of hearing or a registrar unfamiliar with Irish accent. Or simple clerical error. Even if Catherine or Bryan had noticed they might not have questioned an authority figure.
Did Bryan or Catherine sign the register? Was Bryan Irish as well? With Bryan as his name I expect at least one of his parents was Irish.

My concentration on Catherine's ages is an effort to work out a likely span of years for her birth. Age at her 2nd marriage seems to be out of sync with other records.
I know from the other thread that Catherine wasn't positively identified on 1851 census. Do you have Bryan on 1851 census in order to see what age he was then? He was apparently 40 on 1861 census.

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Re: Catherine Ryan
« Reply #13 on: Friday 03 August 18 18:38 BST (UK) »
With the exception of the 1851 census - said to be born in Scotland - and the 1881 census - born in Kilkenny - all other census entries are "Ireland"  :-X

I doubt that 1851 census is the right William & Catherine McDonnell/McDonald. P.o.b. for both conflicts with 1841. 1841 has Ireland for both of them. 1851 has Middlesex for William and Scotland for Catherine. Similarities were William's occupation and daughter Catherine. We don't know if William was alive in 1851.

I'm hoping that other Irish-born members of Catherine's Ryan family might have given more information about p.o.b.

Offline heywood

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Re: Catherine Ryan
« Reply #14 on: Friday 03 August 18 19:06 BST (UK) »
Have you looked at the Ryan family who were on Bennet St. on 1841 census when Catherine and her husband were also there? If you think this was or may have been Catherine's birth family, follow it  through each subsequent census in the hope that one person may have been specific about their place of birth in Ireland. At present all you have is a county.

This was mentioned in the other thread and looks very likely doesn’t it?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQLZ-PDJ
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Offline heywood

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Re: Catherine Ryan
« Reply #15 on: Friday 03 August 18 19:23 BST (UK) »
1851 2230 pg 38 - damaged

David Ryan 63 yrs
Catherine Ryan 60 yrs
James Ryan 22 yrs

Bennett Street - address has been overwritten and is probably ‘under’

1871 4047/104/9

Catherine and Valentine are at 68 Bennett Street and James and family are living in the Cellar.
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Re: Catherine Ryan
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 04 August 18 01:45 BST (UK) »
1851 2230 pg 38 - damaged

David Ryan 63 yrs
Catherine Ryan 60 yrs
James Ryan 22 yrs

Bennett Street - address has been overwritten and is probably ‘under’

1871 4047/104/9

Catherine and Valentine are at 68 Bennett Street and James and family are living in the Cellar.

Do you think David was Daniel?
Valentine Ryan, now that's a name I like. Romantic parents, or named for someone?
A Valentine Ryan of right age was in Yorkshire at 1851 census.
So far nobody is divulging a specific birthplace.

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Re: Catherine Ryan
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 04 August 18 03:05 BST (UK) »
As Valentine is an unusual name, and judging by his age and ages of his parents he may have been one of the older sons and perhaps called after a grandfather, I checked Griffiths' Valuation for a Valentine Ryan in Co. Kilkenny. There were 2.

1. Union: Waterford;     Parish: Killahy;   Townland: Inchacarran;  Place: Inchacarran.
2. Union: Thomastown;  Parish: Graiguenamanagh;  Townland: Graiguenamanagh;  Place: Douske Lane, South of High St.

These people may have no connection to the Ryan family in Manchester but should be noted as being of interest.

Griffiths' Valuation was a survey of property holdings in Ireland. It was undertaken in the 1850s, a few years after the Great Famine. There are lists of property holders in each townland with accompanying maps. Griffiths' Valuation is free to look at. Ryan entries in Kilkenny on Griffiths number approx. 2,500.

"Union", "Parish" and "Townland" are units within a county. A townland is not the same as a town. Smallest unit is townland. They vary in size. (If your ancestor put name of townland on census you've got a head start.) A parish in context of Griffiths Valuation means civil parish. A Union was a group of parishes. Unions were set up in Ireland to administer the Poor Law, introduced to the country 1838. Unions were later used in organisation of civil registration of births, marriages and deaths.

(This is 2nd time I've typed this. I clicked on wrong thing and wiped 1st go.)