Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset

[goldie61]

Snippets 9 & 10

be maried by thadvise of my wiff And after the deathe of my said wiffe by thadvise of my
executours The said Sommes of money before appoynted for the mariage of my saide
daughters to be levid and taken by myne executours of the Rentunes(?) Issues and proffits of all
my Manours landes and tentis the landes and tenements herafter bequethid or appoynted
unto my said wiff and other duringe their lyves only except, AND in caas my said sonnes
dye before all my said daughters be maryed, And my said daughters be heires unto  me or to
my said sonnes or to anny of them I will that then all bequestis made to my said daughters

being so heires and not maried be voide and of none effect, And if anny of my daughters be
maried and he heyres or one of my heires as is aforesaid before the money to hur bequethid be
paid That then the payment therof as muche as shalbe then to paye to cease, And the same
Sommes that they shulde have had to goo to the payments of my debts and p(er)fourmannce of my will, And that donne the overplus to go to the makynge of high wayes and Mariage of
pore Maydens and suche other charitable dedis as shalbe thought convenyent by myne executo(ur)s
ALLSO I WILL that my said wife shalhave the rule and guydinge of all my childerne aswell
sonnes as daughters, And allso the proffitts of all suche sommes of monye as by this my will
be, And is assigned and apointed for the fyndinge of them as is aforesaid untill my saide
daughters be maried and my said sonnes come to thage of xxi yeres, And when anny of my said
daughters byn maryed they to Abbate their porcion of xxli, And that porcion to goo the p(er)four -
mannce of my will AND ALLSO I will that Margaret my wif shalhave all and singuler my
Manours of Croke Cleycotton and Lylboune in the countie of Northampton Dregge Carleton w(it)h


* Rent? Issues and profits.......

Help HD please. Normally 'rents', but more letters here.

Love the 'Pore Maydens ' Willow! Took me ages to twig what that was - it didn't help I managed to miss the line before that out when I transcribed it the first time - so it made even less sense! 

[goldie61]

I'd agree he mentions his sons in the order Henry, Thomas, Edward and John.

[Bookbox]

* Rent? Issues and profits.......

It's Revenues.

[goldie61]

* Rent? Issues and profits.......

It's Revenues.

Thanks Bookbox.

[WillowG]

Not sure about "Spiritual dignity" Willow.
Like you I thought he meant their coming of age, but then later he actually talks about them attaining 21.
I'd be interested in finding out if there is another meaning though!

Yes, it's very strange isn't it! When looking back it does make sense that it would mean something else, as he applies the the term to doctour Johannes fysyssion too (let us employ the proper spelling here *g*) ... And he would presumably have been a learned man of age.

But what?

Hm. I do wonder if it could mean 'until death', to be morbid, (i.e. 'for life',) but the Tudors don't seem to have a problem spelling that out. The term for life is employed liberally throughout the will. Hm! again. Quite the mystery!

Love the 'Pore Maydens ' Willow! Took me ages to twig what that was - it didn't help I managed to miss the line before that out when I transcribed it the first time - so it made even less sense! 

Haha, yes, I loved that part, too, goldie!!!  I love that you loved it too! 

I have been chuckling about that all day.

Thank you so much everybody again!!! This is absolutely wonderful!

(In honour of the occasion of him mentioning 'Margaret my wif' in his will for the first time I thought I would link to the sketch of Margaret Wotton, Marchioness of Dorset by Holbein:

https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/912209/margaret-marchioness-of-dorset-d-in-or-after-1535

After which there have been painted:
http://www.nationaltrustcollections.org.uk/object/515504

Many:
https://www.weissgallery.com/paintings/lady-margaret-wotton-marchioness-dorset-1487-1541

Many:
https://michaelescolme.wordpress.com/2016/02/26/an-imaginary-portrait-of-margaret-wotton-c-1490-after-1535-marchioness-of-dorset/

Many:
https://no.pinterest.com/pin/221098662927613776/?lp=true

Paintings:
https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/search#/3/collection/2081385/lady-grey-margaret-wootton

Margaret Wotton, Marchioness of Dorset, was one of the two godmothers of Princess Elizabeth, the later Queen Elizabeth I, daughter of Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn. Three months before the christening Margaret had ridden in Anne Boleyn's coronation procession from the Tower of London to Westminster Abbey.

She was going to carry the infant Prince Edward, the later Edward VI, at his christening, but was unable to attend due to an outbreak of the plague. At the time she was virtually quarantined her in Croydon, Surrey, 11 miles (18.3 km) south of London.)

And of course no daughters mentioned by name yet  Would it really have been so much to ask of these people to list everyone with birthdays and birth years and all of their known ancestors and descendants and perfectly describe their relationship with every one of them? I had great hopes for Anne and Mary, but it turned out to be 'anny' and 'maried' lololol.

Thank you all again for all of your absolutely fantastic help! I am really having so much fun with this will! 

I'd agree he mentions his sons in the order Henry, Thomas, Edward and John.

I am so glad that you agree with me. I can't believe that we've actually been able to crack this!!! Go team! 

[goldie61]

Snippets 11 & 12.

daughters byn maryed them to Abbate their porcions of xxli And that porcion to goo the p(er)four -
mannce of my will AND ALLSO I will that Margaret my wif shalhave all and singulier my
Manours of Creke Cleycotton and Lylborne in the countie of Northampton Dregge Carleton w(i)t(h)
the office of the baylyweke betwene Ayne and derwent , and with the office of the baylyweke
betwene Ayne and derwent Egremond Harrington in the countie of Cumbr(ia) and Thorne lying in the countie of Lancastre with thappurtenaces and all and singulier Messuages landis ten(emen)tis
and hereditamentis in Creke Claycotton Lylborne in the countie of Northampton dregge Carlton
Egremond and harrington in the said countie of Cumbr(ia) and Thorne lying in the said Countie of
Lancastre or  ellswhere within anny of the said counties whiche arr reputed knowen or takyn

as parrcell parte or membres of the same Manours landis and ten(emen)tis or of anny of them
to have and to holde the same Manours landis and ten(emen)ts to the said Margaret my wiff for
terme of lyfe of Lady Elizabethe Counteis of Oxforde late wife to the Lorde Beamont AND
after the deathe of the same Counteis of Oxforde I will myn executours shall take the revenues
issues and proffits of the same Manours landis and ten(emen)tis towarde the p(er)formmannce of this
my will AND ALLSO I will to Margaret my said wiff the Manours of Mucheland and
Ulverstond in the countie of Lancastre the manours of Wodacre Ketion Enerdale and Gossford
in the countie of *Combe the manours of Wodhi(n)gferres and Stebbing in the countie of Essex





‘Ulverstond’ might be Ulverston - now in Cumbria, historically in Lancashire.

*In the other clip ‘Cumbria’ is quite clearly written. This one is written “Combr”.
Good luck with finding all those manors!

'Baylyweke' = Bailiwick "the district or jurisdiction of a bailie or bailiff".

[horselydown86]

Regarding the spiritual dignity, it actually refers to Robert Broke the schoolmaster and Doctor Johannes.

The reading is muddied in the break between snippets #4 & #5. (It caught me, too.)

I think it must mean their deaths - an extravagant way of saying for the term of their lives, perhaps informed by both being learned men of earthly dignity.

Just a couple of suggestions regarding the names of the manors:

Enerdale is accurately transcribed but, given the range of interpretations for the u/v character, could also be read as Everdale or Euerdale (ie Ewerdale).

I think it is Wodh(a)mferres, just because that's the conventional method of contracting the -ham.

ADDED:

In snippet #11, two instances of: Thorneh(a)m

ADDED 2:

In line 5 of snippet #11; written is Dewan Egremond

However, (i) I'm not sure that's a D (it's different to others), and (ii) it's contracted in some manner.

[goldie61]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Woodham_Ferrers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thornham,_Greater_Manchester

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ennerdale,_Cumbria  ?

This is from an on-line book - 'The History and Antiquities of the Counties of Westmoreland and Cumberland'

Sorry - mistyped 'Eyne' as 'Eyre' on the title of the clipping - can't find out how to change it!

[Bookbox]

*In the other clip ‘Cumbria’ is quite clearly written. This one is written “Combr”.

Just incidentally, I would have expected both Cumbr' and Combr' to be contracted forms of Cumberland (not Cumbria).