Author Topic: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset  (Read 8149 times)

Offline WillowG

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 406
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 08 August 18 20:40 BST (UK) »
This is so exciting! Imagine having so much to give away! That must be so fun!  :) :) :)

Good luck with finding all those manors!

I was originally going to reply with that luckily he did not leave them to me, but actually I wouldn't have minded if someone had given me even just one of them, lololol  ;D :D :)

Lady Elizabethe Counteis of Oxforde late wife to the Lorde Beamont

At first I thought he was talking about his sister Elizabeth Grey, Countess of Kildare, but of course he is not.

He is speaking of quite a different Elizabeth, who is countess of something quite else! :)

Consulting Kate Emerson's wonderful Who's Who of Tudor Women (which she kindly allows us to quote from as long as we give credit), she appears to be this woman:

ELIZABETH SCROPE (d. June 26, 1537)
Elizabeth Scrope was the daughter of Sir Richard Scrope (d.1485) and Eleanor Washbourne (d.1505/6). On April 24, 1486 at Westminster, she married William, 2nd viscount Beaumont (d. December 19, 1507). He lost his reason in 1487 and was placed in the care of John de Vere, 13th earl of Oxford at Wivenhoe, Essex until his death. In 1508, Elizabeth married Oxford (September 8, 1442 - March 10, 1513). She was at court as one of Katherine of Aragon’s ladies in 1509. In his will, Oxford left Elizabeth “all manner of apparel to her person,” silk cloth, and “chains, rings, girdles, devices, beads, brooches, ouches and precious stones.” In 1520, she attended the Field of Cloth of Gold. In 1531, she bought the wardship of her nephew, John Audley (her sister Katherine’s son by Richard Audley of Swaffham, Norfolk). She wrote her will on May 30, 1537 and it was proved on November 6, 1537. She was buried at Wivenhoe with her first husband. Portrait: brass at Wivenhoe.
http://www.tudorwomen.com/?page_id=707

Elizabeth Scrope: Denial of Wolsey’s Request
http://www.tudorsdynasty.com/elizabeth-scrope-denial-wolseys-request/

There is not any readily apparent connection to the Greys, however, nor why she would have a life interest where either the interest or the property itself defaulted to them at her death.

A grant from the King that worded it so, perhaps? The will of Sir John Grey, this Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquis of Dorset's brother? His will was dated 3rd of March 1523. The will makes no mention of children, but leaves bequests to other family members. The aforementioned Lady Anne Grey was his widow. After his death she remarried, to Sir Richard Clement of Ightham Mote, Kent.

The will of this Elizabeth, Countess of Oxford's husband?

It's difficult to say.

Regarding the spiritual dignity, it actually refers to Robert Broke the schoolmaster and Doctor Johannes.

The reading is muddied in the break between snippets #4 & #5. (It caught me, too.)

I think it must mean their deaths - an extravagant way of saying for the term of their lives, perhaps informed by both being learned men of earthly dignity.

Ooh, yes that makes so much sense! That must be it. Thank you so much, horselydown! :) How clever of you to catch it! That line break got one over on us all, lol :)

I am glad we solved that mystery.

Thank you so much again, all three of you!!! All of this is absolutely wonderful!  :) :) :)

And I am having so much fun looking up all of those manors! (I would have settled for just one *g*)

Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,896
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 08 August 18 22:22 BST (UK) »
Snippet 13
The manours of Asteley Whitacre Bentley and Aullesley in the countie of Warwike The mano(ur)s

of Heigh(a)m Browghton Asteleye and the manour and hole parke of Bradgate in the countie of Leic’

Snippet 14
with all and singulier their appurtennc(es) and all Landis Tene(me)nt(is) Advousones Patronages and other

hereditamentis whiche be reputid knowen or takyn as parcell parte or membres of the same maners

landis and ten(emen)tis or of anny parte or parcell of anny of them to have and to holde to the saide

Margarete my wiffe for terme of Lyf of the same Margaret  And after the deathe of my

said wiff I will myne executours shalhave and take the revenuez Issues and proffitt(es) therof to

the perfourmance of this my will and testament  Allso I will that my executours shalhave

and take the revenues yssues and proffit(es) of all and singulier my manours and Townes

of Hunspill de La Hay Chawton, Chawton Hundrith Maryett and Turlebor in the countie of ...

Offline WillowG

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 406
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 09 August 18 03:20 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much, Bookbox!!!  :) :D :)

He sure did have a lot of manors, didn't he? *g*

Well, I suppose he worked hard for them. Actually, the general consensus is that he did not, lololol :) He just impressed Henry VIII favourably with his strong jousting skills!

Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquis of Dorset, was actually in disgrace when Henry VII died. It has been speculated in that if Henry VII had lived longer, he would not have.

Henry VIII, however, was apparently very fond of his Grey cousins. And it did not take long after his ascension to the throne for Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquis of Dorset, to be restored to all former glories with a few new honours on top of that again. They were among the few family members he had that could not vy for the throne, his throne.

Life makes fools of us all, it seems, even Henry VIII ...

Thank you so much again, Bookbox, for your wonderful translation! :) :D :) This is actually a really fun will :)

Offline horselydown86

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,418
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 09 August 18 05:12 BST (UK) »
Snippet #15:

...Sommersett and Showtt Southley Wissecombye Bryxh(a)m Cowley Roughorne Grenelinche

ffoxhill Pinner and Sparkey in the countie of Devon the manour of Growby Rottby Newton

Whittington Bardon parke Leyesthropp and Morbowne Willowghby Waterles in the countie

of Leicester The manours of Bedworthe and Pakyngton in the Countie of Warwike the

Manours of Harlington and Sharmbrooke in the countie of Bedd And allso on An(n)uyte or

yerely rente of lxxxij li whiche the kinges grace granntid unto the said Marqueys out of his

douchie as by Indentures therof made playnly apperith and all londis ten(emen)tis hereditamentes...



douchie = duchy  (I would think.)


Offline horselydown86

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,418
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 09 August 18 05:42 BST (UK) »
Snippet #16:

...in enny of the said Townes or elles where whiche be taken as parte or parcell of any of the said

manours To have holde and perceyve all the same Manours londis ten(emen)tis & Annuities to

myn executours to the p(er)fourmance of this my last will and to perfourme the same I will

allso that myn executours shalhave the disposicion no(m)i(n)ation and presentacion of allmaner

of Advousons apperteyninge or belonginge to anny of my said manours landis and ten(emen)tis

before appointed to my Executours for and towardes the p(er)fourmance of this my last will...

Offline WillowG

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 406
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 09 August 18 21:37 BST (UK) »
Thank you, thank you so much!!!  This is splendid :) :D :)

I cannot believe that he mentions all of those manors but has yet to name a single daughter  ::) :)

But I think we are nearing the section that was so horribly mangled in the other version of this will, so that should get us the mention of one at least! :)

Until then I am going to go on researching and imagining living in one of these Tudor castles. There was a lovely Christmas special a couple of years ago  :D I have also been going over Henry VIII's lists over New Year's gifts, and Christmas at Tudor court does seem like so much fun! You know, until the holiday festivities were over and somebody got beheaded or smallpox.

Thank you so much, yet again! This is wonderful work! :) :) :)

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 09 August 18 21:55 BST (UK) »
*In the other clip ‘Cumbria’ is quite clearly written. This one is written “Combr”.

Just incidentally, I would have expected both Cumbr' and Combr' to be contracted forms of Cumberland (not Cumbria).

Cumbreland? Just remembering how it was pronounced/written by characters in "The Last Kingdom" novels and TV series set in 9thC. I'm interested in both these periods of history.
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 09 August 18 22:05 BST (UK) »

Just a couple of suggestions regarding the names of the manors:

ADDED:

In snippet #11, two instances of: Thorneh(a)m

ADDED 2:

In line 5 of snippet #11; written is Dewan Egremond

However, (i) I'm not sure that's a D (it's different to others), and (ii) it's contracted in some manner.

Thurnham in north Lancashire.

Egremont in Cumberland.

These are just suggestions based on my knowledge of geography of North-West England. Btw I'm descended from Lambs who were numerous around Thurnham from this time on. One of my distant ancestors might have been a tenant.

Cowban

Offline horselydown86

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,418
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #35 on: Friday 10 August 18 06:34 BST (UK) »
Snippet 17 (all I have time for at the moment):

...as often as the same advousons or anny of them shall fortune to falle and be voide untill

suche tyme yt my said will be perfourmed and I will that therafter this my last will be

or myght be lawfully p(er)fourmed and for lacke and defaulte of Issue male of my bodye

laufully begotton I will that my doughter Marye have all and singulier my said [Manours?]

londis and ten(emen)tis in the said counties of Combr and Lancastre to hur and to the heires of hur

body lawfully begotton only allso I will that myn executours shall taken thissues revenues

and proffites of all and singulier suche Manours landis ten(emen)tes and hereditamentis wherof my...



yt = that

I suspect that taken should be read as take in.

thissues = the issues