Thomas Carroll, last seen in Liverpool 1851. What happened next?

[heywood]

I am the same re Durham - not sure but then I try to check on a map to look at distances etc.
As I said, Carroll is not uncommon and the areas you have were both strong Irish areas.
It is wise to keep the notes and then, as you say, check later.

All good wishes
Heywood

[Jomot]

A possibility regarding the deaths of James & Catherine.

Durham Records Online free index has a death (burial) in 1876 of Catherine Carroll born c1817 of Monkey Yard (Sunderland).  This record was also returned when a spouse name of James was added.

There is also death (burial) of James Carroll of Monkey Yard in 1881, year of birth c1818.

In the 1881 Census at Monkey(s) Yard are the following:

James Carroll 60 Widower General Labourer born Ireland - noted as an invalid
Ellen McClelly 34 Daur born Ireland
Peter McClelly 30 Son in Law, General Labourer born Ireland

I think 'McClelly' may be McCawley, as an Ellen Carrol married Peter McCawley in Sunderland RD in 1872

[dtcoulson]

Haha... famous last words....

Bravo, Jomot. You have found the Carroll (Carll) family first identified in Houghton Le Spring in 1851. All the details match well, if not perfectly.

In the notes I gathered earlier today I have a reference to a different James Carroll dying in Sunderland, as follows:
[]
CARROL, JAMES       
age at death = 67     [therefore born 1808]
1875  M Quarter
SUNDERLAND 
[]

Does your Durham Records Online site provide details of this man?

If it can be shown that this is the James Carroll of Painshaw in 1861 then
have a strong indication that there are indeed two Carroll families in this area and the
stated ages are reliable.

-DC

[heywood]

Possibility here

1871 5015/12/23
3 Baker’s Entry Sunderland

James Carrol 55 yrs labourer b Ireland
Catherine Carrol   50 yrs b Ireland
John Devlin lodger 30 yrs Engine Wright b Ireland

Bakers entry follows Monkey’s Yard in census pages

[heywood]

Sorry Jomot - I forgot to say, great finds 

[Jomot]

Does your Durham Records Online site provide details of this man?

Its a subscription site so I have only been able to access the free index, but you can buy 4 credits for £4.50, and each of the burial/cemetery entries is 1 credit.  All of the records are transcriptions though, not images.

[Jomot]

A possibility for Ellen in 1871 in Bishop Wearmouth - aged 24 & born Leitrim, Ireland

RG10, Piece 5010, Folio 33, Page 63

[heywood]

-DC,

Who were the witnesses to Ann’s marriage?

[dtcoulson]

I haven't seen the marriage cert so I couldn't say.
The conclusion is pretty robust as their Collinson children have MMN Carroll and several other researchers have drawn this same conclusion. I assume some of them have obtained a copy of the marriage cert long before me. (sadly I have not been able to get a reply from any of these people).
I can see the value in checking witnesses now that you mention it.


On another subject:
[1]
I have been framing this as either the Carroll family lived in Houghton Le Spring in 1851
or lived in Liverpool in 1851 when in fact the family may simply still have been in Ireland in 1851. Ann was born in Chester le Street and baptised in Houghton le Spring in March 1852 which makes the time frame short but not impossible.

[2]
There is a widowed, Irish Kate Carroll living in Witton-Gilbert in 1891 which I've only just discovered is 8 miles down the road from CLS (Chester Le Street). She is staying with a son named Thomas, born in Ireland in 1845. I am treating this as coincidence and more evidence of a lot of Carroll families in the region with similar first names.


-David C