Author Topic: Merchant Navy ship name help  (Read 815 times)

Offline WythenshaweWench

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Re: Merchant Navy ship name help
« Reply #9 on: Monday 06 August 18 16:31 BST (UK) »
And the front page of the NITONIAN...

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Offline seaweed

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Re: Merchant Navy ship name help
« Reply #10 on: Friday 10 August 18 10:08 BST (UK) »
Sorry for the late reply. Did not get an email notification.
Do you have the complete logbook of NITONIAN? The narrative pages I am talking about should be in pages 21-28.of the logbook. (What you have posted is is from the crew agreement)These will be a summary of events and may indicate if your man was suffering illness or incapacity prior to being hospitalised.
As indicated you should try and get hold of the early 1903 logbooks and crew agreements of MESABA.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

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Offline WythenshaweWench

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Re: Merchant Navy ship name help
« Reply #11 on: Friday 10 August 18 19:30 BST (UK) »
Hi Seaweed

Sorry, been out all day ☺️

I don’t have the other pages for the NITONIAN - I had to get in touch with the MUN in Canada to get these pages and had to pay for them... But now I know there’s a specific page I can ask for, I’ll go back to them and see if they’ll send them to me ☺️

And I’ll try and get the logbooks of the MESABA. The MUN told me this...:

“The National Archives in Kew holds the crew agreements of the Mesaba for voyages terminating in 1903, reference number BT 99/2343. I do not know where the 1902 crew agreements are held or if they still exist.“

Thanks for all your help. I find it very confusing as to who holds what records... 😬😬😬

Jayne xx

Offline seaweed

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Re: Merchant Navy ship name help
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 11 August 18 14:51 BST (UK) »
It looks as if the 1922 logbooks of NITONIAN have been lost or destroyed. Still it would do no harm to check with MUN.
Your best course of action is to visit Kew to view the early 1903 crew agreements of MESABA.
TNA would probably treat an email request as research and charge accordingly.

Could you give us your G/Grandads date and place of birth. There are a few other lines of enquiry open to you, other crew agreements, medal cards etc, but a common denominator is needed as Merchant Seamen very often lied about their age.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

Offline WythenshaweWench

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Re: Merchant Navy ship name help
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 14 August 18 19:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Seaweed

Sorry for the late reply, I've only just had chance to come back to you :)

I've got his DOB down as 1st Feb 1874, but I can't find ANY birth records for him at all! 

I don't know where he was born, or anything else about him.  He and my G/Grandmother were never married.  She was a widow when they met and she already had 3 daughters, then my Grandmother, Lilian and her siblings came along, so there's no marriage certificate.

On the 1911 census, He's living in Higher Openshaw, Manchester with 'wife' Julia Scaife (they never married, so she's really Julia MORRIS), Mary Scaife (who was Julia's daughter from her first marriage, so she's Mary Morris), and my Grandmother Lilian Scaife.  On this, he's written that he's 36, and was born in AMERICA!  Interestingly, I don't know where her other 2 daughters were.

On all of the ship information I've found, his DOB is 1/2/1874.  His CR10 also has the same date, but states birthplace as 'Manchester, Eng', so not America.

I can only find 2 Joseph Scaifes born in Manchester:

1 - 1870 (born in Manchester, quarter 1)
2 - 1979 (born in Chorlton, Manchester) BUT this Joseph appears on a separate 1911 census sheet with his wife and 2 children

Oh I think I need to find an expert to help me wade through all of this info!

I just can't FIND him!  Can you see any other avenue I could try, or am I missing something glaringly obvious?   ::) ::) ::)

Jayne xx

Offline seaweed

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Re: Merchant Navy ship name help
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 15 August 18 12:20 BST (UK) »
A long shot,
In the on line 1915 crew agreements there is a J Scaife born in Manchester searving as a Fireman on board the vessel AYDON. His age is given as 34 but as already stated Merchant Seamen regularly lied about  their correct age. Can you compare the signature?
Like I say a long shot.

http://1915crewlists.rmg.co.uk/document/208257#&gid=1&pid=4

Number 49 on the crew list.

I can find no WW1 medal listings.

Any chance you could post both sides of his CR10?
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

Offline HMac

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Re: Merchant Navy ship name help
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 15 August 18 13:13 BST (UK) »
Just in case you don't have this information, Joseph Scaife  b. Manchester  1.2.1874. His Dis.A number was 569180 and he appears to be no longer registered in the MN from about 1923. His record also states that he also appears to hold Dis. A number 783617. Records for this Dis.A  appear to have not survived.

1 x CR10, 1 x CR1 and 1 x CR2 survive for this seaman.

119879 – TEESBRIDGE – 9.4.1920
131460 – NITONIAN – 1.6.1922
145910 – DAKOTIAN – 11.8.1922

Regards
Hugh
Merchant Navy Research
ss CITY OF CAIRO

Offline seaweed

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Re: Merchant Navy ship name help
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 15 August 18 14:59 BST (UK) »
Thanks Hugh,
Usefull information as always.
Jayne, you should try and get hold of the Crew Agreement  and Logbook of TEESBRIDGE to find the name of his previous ship.
https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=119879
The MN central personal records for the period of WW1 have been destroyed and no records were kept from 1857 to 1913. So back tracking via C/As is the only way to find out. Long winded and a little costly but possible.
I should be at Kew next week all being well and will endeavour to check the early 1903 C/As of MESABA.

regards
SW
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

Offline WythenshaweWench

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Re: Merchant Navy ship name help
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 15 August 18 18:56 BST (UK) »
Hugh - many thanks for the post - I've got that from his CR1, CR2 and CR10 . I was so pleased to find his photo - he really does look like members of the family  :D

Seaweed - I'm attaching the CR forms now as requested

CR1 first :-) 

Will check the signatures next

Jayne xx