Author Topic: England Births and living in Scotland  (Read 1749 times)

Offline HmmS336

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
England Births and living in Scotland
« on: Tuesday 07 August 18 14:20 BST (UK) »
My brick wall - the first record I have of my grandmothers grandmother is in 1871 census - she is living with her mother and her mothers husband.  Mother and daughter share the same name (just to confuse) and I have all but given up trying to find where they were from or find a birth date that would then help prove a birth if I ever find one! 

Mothers first appearance in the records, that I have,  is her marriage to soldier originally from Fearn in 1856. Married in Berwick.  Two male witnesses (soldier friends?) 

All censuses for both between 1871 and 1911 say simply England as place of birth.  I assume that the child was illegitimate as per her death entry by her husband and the mothers marriage where it is written Spinster. 

Daughter on her marriage has given a fathers name and as deceased and this is noted on their children's birth and death certificates  - those that I have. Could be a lead but I have searched the name and cannot find anything.   I assume that the daughter was illegitimate as per her death entry by her husband and her mothers marriage where it is written Spinster.   

Is there anything that I have overlooked that may give either a place of birth or a birth date for either? 

Daughter dies first - then step father who leaves everything to his wife (the mother) in his will then three years later mother and son in law in the same year.  There is property but no one else has a will, that I can see on SP.    The mothers death cert is signed by bank trustee (no info with regard to parents) and the inventory of her late husband is added to after her death.

The daughter and husband along her own daughter and family are living at one of the houses in 1911 .  Would there be a legal trail?  This daughter (same first name as her mother and grandmother) is 2nd of 4 living girls and there is an older brother,  that is owner in the valuation rolls up to 1935 and is where she dies in 1950. ****

Just looking for anything that may help me find where the two were born!


**** - edited to add MJ Stewart is the oldest girl but not oldest child- I had them listed incorrectly.

Online KGarrad

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 26,062
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: England Births and living in Scotland
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 07 August 18 14:46 BST (UK) »
You could try to find a baptism record?

If you named mother and daughter, together with birth years, maybe one of us RootsChatters could find something for you?
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline HmmS336

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: England Births and living in Scotland
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 07 August 18 15:16 BST (UK) »
I have tried and tried !  Though fresh eyes may see something -

they are both Mary Jane Dickinson - born 1830ish and 1850ish - I bought a record from Gro for a Bradford birth but its not this one (forgot to cross reference with deaths) I had been following on for them 1851/61 census. Bradford birth with mum not there and assumed it was her - no,  that MJD died same quarter

No sign in 1861 - soldier maybe abroad and family with him?  He is Peter Urquhart and in the RA (Coast). 

Looking at Peters will again - it shows that MJ senior could not read and write (never having been shown how) amd signed with an X so whilst this is the spelling used it may not be what any original recordings may show.

Online rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 41,948
  • ALFIE 2009 - 2021 (Rosbercon Sky's the Limit)
    • View Profile
Re: England Births and living in Scotland
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 07 August 18 15:25 BST (UK) »
Is this the family in 1881 Inverness  :-\

Peter Urquhart   52 bn Fearn
Mary Jane Urquhart   50 bn England
James Stewart   39 bn Fortingall, Perthshire
Mary Jane Stewart   31 bn England
James Peter Stewart   1 bn Inverness

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline HmmS336

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: England Births and living in Scotland
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 07 August 18 15:48 BST (UK) »
Yes - thats them - have them both  through 71  to 1911 census - all say England for their births.

They stay in the Inverness area in the main.

Online KGarrad

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 26,062
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: England Births and living in Scotland
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 07 August 18 16:39 BST (UK) »
Possible?

Baptism, 24 Sept 1850 at Spalding, Lincolnshire
Mary Jane Dickinson, daughter of Jane Dickinson
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline HmmS336

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: England Births and living in Scotland
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 07 August 18 17:05 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the suggestion - its one I have looked at before - my biggest -'con' is why are they in Berwick,  6 years later?  Its a good distance for a single mother and small child.  Pro -  MJD senior on marriage to Peter claims her father was Thomas and I found a family in 1841in the Lincolnshire area that fitted. 

I though if I had a birth date- or area they were from then I might be able to join the dots.   This birth does not seem to appear on GRO,  though.




Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,508
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: England Births and living in Scotland
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 07 August 18 21:41 BST (UK) »
A little on Peter Urquhart here http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13216014 and http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12754025

Doesn't help on the issue of the two MJDs  :-\

Monica

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,508
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: England Births and living in Scotland
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 07 August 18 22:06 BST (UK) »
Have you come across this entry for a Mary, unmarried, and a daughter Mary Dickenson from 1851? From Family Search (you need to be logged on to view) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGY6-3VY

Maybe connects to this baptism for Mary Snr with father Thomas. Same birth place from the 1851 census

Baptism: 11 Apr 1825 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
Mary Dickinson - Daughter of Thomas Dickinson & Ann
    Abode: Abram, Wigan
    Occupation: Weaver
    Baptised by: Jacob Robson Curate
    Register: Baptisms 1821 - 1825, Page 272, Entry 2169
    Source: LDS Film 1885647

www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

The occupation for the father Thomas of weaver is similar to that of Mary Dickenson in 1851.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk