Author Topic: Evelyn Watson  (Read 718 times)

Offline arthurk

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,231
    • View Profile
Re: Evelyn Watson
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 09 August 18 16:08 BST (UK) »
I was a bit thrown once when I found one of my ancestors whom I'd always thought of as John being referred to as Jack, but it is the standard familiar form. My father was John to almost everyone, but one cousin always called him Jack for some reason.

There's no reference to Yorkshire in the register, unfortunately - English marriage registers give fathers' names and occupations, but not where they lived. The space for Evelyn's occupation has a line drawn through.

The marriage entry records that it took place by licence rather than by banns, and Ancestry also has a record of that. Unfortunately it doesn't give any extra information - just the names, marital status, age (both 21 and upward), and parish of residence (not full addresses).
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline arthurk

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,231
    • View Profile
Re: Evelyn Watson
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 09 August 18 16:43 BST (UK) »
One thing leads to another.... now try and sort this one out.

1911 census - no joy with Evelyn Russell, so I tried looking for any Evelyn of about the right age, born Leeds and living in Middlesex.

At the same address that Evelyn Russell gives at her marriage are Harry and Caroline Ellis, aged 57 & 49. Married 29 years, 3 children of whom one has died. He was born Richmond, Leeds (I think), she Scarborough.

Immediately below them, and just above a servant, is Evelyn Ellis, daughter, 26, single, no occupation, born Burmantofts, Leeds. Coincidence - or what?

This can be seen at ref RG14/3577 sch202
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Ladyhawk

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,222
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Evelyn Watson
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 09 August 18 18:27 BST (UK) »

Ancestry have 3 military records for Thomas H Muir, but they seem to be inaccessible to me, possibly because he was in a Canadian regiment.

Don't know if this will help or not........here's some of the information

WW1 Canadian Soliders
Thomas Herbert Muir bn Hampstead London, single
1st Pioneer Bn Enlistment place Vancouver on 4th October 1915
Next of kin father W J Muir 27 Hemstall Rd W Hampstead London

here’s some pieces from his Attestation Papers to many to type just confirming
Evelyn’s address and according to these papers her surname became Watson

Thomas Herbert Muir
Born 16th April 1880, occ Electrician

page 3
Medals & Decs widow Mrs Evelyn Muir, WATSON address St. Lucia Hampton Road
P & S widow see above
Mem. Cross widow see above
Mem cross mother Mrs Polly Muir 27 Henstall Rd We Hampstead
Desp. 17 Aug  1920

page 13

Latest address Mrs Evelyn Watson St Lucia Hampstead RoadThis has been crossed out and written underneath the address is  “not known at this address”

Page 17
Arrived in England 30 Nov 1915
9/3/16 1st Pioneers Embarked for France 9 Mar 1916
7/6/16 apptd L?Corpl. France 26/6/16
20/6/16 Killed in Action Frnce 12/6/16

page 19 medical history
Examined 27 Sept 1915 at Vancouver Occ Electrician
Apparaent age 25 yrs 6 mos height 5ft 9 3/4

pg 23
Compulsory Militia & Defence Assigned Pay
Widow Mrs Evelyn Muir St Lucia Hampton Rd Teddington
Jan 1916 receiving separation allowance
Jun 1916 payment was stopped KIA

Pg 25
next of kin father W J Muir
assigned pay monthly changed $15 to 25 on 1/4/16 to widow Mrs Evelyn Muir
St Lucia Hampton Rd Teddington

Page 31 6/10/15
Separation Allowance
Evelyn Muir wife St Lucia Hampton Rd Teddington
remarks
Marriage cert produced, married 27/12/15
O.C’s permission obt.
Proof of eng. Estab.
Date of  ?lication 11/5/16
KIA 12/6/16
 Pension granted from 13/6/16 (to widow) a/c closed 25/9/16
$ 72.6 to be deducted from pension

Good idea to obtain the Muir/Watson marriage to check details








Offline pyghtle

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
    • View Profile
Re: Evelyn Watson
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 09 August 18 19:40 BST (UK) »
Thank you arthurk, I skim read your posting when it arrived,but as usual....busy time of day so could not wait to get back to it to read and digest, just logged on again and there is that great detailed post from Ladyhawk, thank you so much, now I just need more time to read and digest both postings. Please do not think that I am not doing anything else at this end, I found details of the Evelyn’s first marriage on Family Search with the reference number, I also found that they had free access on their site to the 1911 census, so I found the same details there, I have also emailed Canadian Army Veteran Affairs for details of Thomas, but you have beaten me to that Ladyhawk, I am sure I will not received anything as detailed as your posting......so I am trying at this end! Let me go now and carefully read through these emails again, thank you both and everyone else who has helped.
Tebbs... Leicester, Gainsborough, Lincoln, Hunslet,Harehills, Leeds
Daniel....Hyde Park Leeds, Paddington London
Russell...Harehills, Leeds
Hope ..Harehills (Leeds)
Coop..Leicester, Birmingham
Payne..Leicester, Blackpool

Offline arthurk

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,231
    • View Profile
Re: Evelyn Watson
« Reply #31 on: Friday 10 August 18 09:54 BST (UK) »
Coincidentally I heard this morning that a lot of Canadian WW1 service records have just been made freely available online. I didn't check precisely, but from the parts that Ladyhawk has quoted, it looks as though it's the same as can be found at Ancestry. This is the page for Thomas Herbert Muir:

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=179119

As well as the two images on that page, you can view/download a 32 page pdf of his complete service record.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Ladyhawk

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,222
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Evelyn Watson
« Reply #32 on: Friday 10 August 18 10:17 BST (UK) »
Coincidentally I heard this morning that a lot of Canadian WW1 service records have just been made freely available online.

I didn't check precisely, but from the parts that Ladyhawk has quoted, it looks as though it's the same as can be found at Ancestry.

Well found arthurk  :) now pyghtle can view all the pages herself - as I only skimmed through to see if I could find some mention of Evelyn

Offline pyghtle

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
    • View Profile
Re: Evelyn Watson
« Reply #33 on: Friday 10 August 18 10:22 BST (UK) »
That is amazing! Thank you so much arthurk, again I have had a quick look but will catch up with it again later when I have more time. I would again like to thank everyone who has responded to my post, the information about Thomas Herbert is a spin off from the information I have just discovered about what happened to my Grandfather Roland Russell. I have just looked back on Rootschat and as far back as 2006 I was asking for help researching him and only now have I found out how and where he died, and the fact that his sister Evelyn Watson was with him when he died has led to this interesting story. I would still like to know how Evelyn came to be in Teddington, “St Lucia” could be a school, maybe she was in service, knowing how family history research works I will find out some time, I have emailed Teddington local history group, maybe they have information, meanwhile I have all this new information to transcribe onto my family tree!
Tebbs... Leicester, Gainsborough, Lincoln, Hunslet,Harehills, Leeds
Daniel....Hyde Park Leeds, Paddington London
Russell...Harehills, Leeds
Hope ..Harehills (Leeds)
Coop..Leicester, Birmingham
Payne..Leicester, Blackpool

Offline arthurk

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,231
    • View Profile
Re: Evelyn Watson
« Reply #34 on: Friday 10 August 18 20:33 BST (UK) »
I know you've been looking into this, but as I was puzzled about Evelyn Ellis in Teddington I thought I'd dig around a bit more. I haven't filled all the gaps by any means, but this is what I'm thinking:

I've just looked at the 1891 census with Evelyn and her family (6 Lovell Terrace, Leeds - RG12/3697 fo111 p23), and I was struck by the similarity between Evelyn's mother Caroline there and Caroline Ellis as found in Teddington in 1911 - same age, both born Yorkshire (places differ, though), and crucially, in the way census returns are written, both could be mother of Evelyn.

So, I wonder if Caroline Ellis in 1911 is Evelyn's mother? (I've also found her in Teddington in 1901 as Carry Ellis, aged 40, living on her own means - listed as a wife, but no husband in the household; RG13/673 fo101 p41.)

I don't know where Harry Ellis is in 1901, and I haven't found a marriage for them either, so I'm wondering if they moved down south and just lived as if married. The length of marriage and number of children shown in 1911 might then relate to Caroline's marriage to John Russell.

Another interesting snippet is that the 1891 household includes a Willie Elliss, 7, a boarder - I wonder if he is related to Harry?
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline arthurk

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,231
    • View Profile
Re: Evelyn Watson
« Reply #35 on: Friday 10 August 18 20:54 BST (UK) »
Another bit to add to this. I'm not saying it's definitely the right one, but it looks interesting.

In the West Yorkshire non-conformist registers at Ancestry there's one for a Wesleyan Chapel in Richmond Hill, which I thought was Leeds. Most or all of the addresses given are in Leeds, but for some reason the pages are headed "Richmond Hill Bradford".

Here I've found a baptism of a William Ellis, son of Henry and Mary, of 14 Carbut Terrace, Leeds; born 15 Nov 1883, bapt 10 Jan 1884.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk