Dr Barnardos records for children in care and adoption for the period 1882-1885

[suzard]

as ou delve further into your history you may find that the Hodgson name comes from maybe the female lines ( great grans etc) or it may come from someone who left something in a will -on 1881 census there is a George Appleby described as uncle to Joseph Pyle (who has his siblings with him) -may be worth trying to "fit him in"
It looks like the children went to live with brother Joseph (who married 1875) before Thomas was murdered -possibly around the time of Harriet's death
The woman who (according to family recollections named Hodgson) who "adopted" one of the children was possibly Mary Ann Thompson (nee Wilkin) who although much older than Joseph Pyle married him and seemingly brought his siblings up and family assumed her name was Hodgson

All supposition but a possibility

I'm going to have a look for george Appleby and see where he fits into the equation

Suz

[medpat]

My husband's family had several generations with a surname as a second name, it was only when I got back to the late 1700s I found the lady marrying into the family. She died very old so 3 generations knew her.

Family tales often have a true story but oral history often gets 'adjusted'. My father said his family moved from Wales the time of my gt gt grandfather who died in a pit accident aged 29. The facts are my gt gt grandfather did die aged 29 in a pit accident but was born Dudley, so was his father. I have managed to link up with other branches of the Lloyd family. All know we came from the Valleys but not when. Distorted but very likely correct, they were from the Valleys but time scale has slipped.

Your name could be from someone who married into the family or someone who did help with children but not in the time scale that you were given. Keep going back to see when the name started being used, you could be lucky like I was.

[suzard]

I have found George Appleby on some census
1881 he is described as Joseph Pyle's uncle - so he could possibly  be related to Thomas Pyle or Harriet -what is interesting is that some of George Appleby's brother's children have (what look like) surnames as middle names
1851
South St HolmsideTanfield Durham
John Appleby Head M 32 Coal Miner Sheriff Hill Durham
Maria wife33 Ryton
Hannah daughter 14 hetton Hole
Mary daughter 12 EastRainton
John George son 10 Woodside
Eliz daughter 8 Craghead
William Thomas son 5 Craghead
Robert Jobson Appleby son2 Southmoor
Mary bell Appleby daughter1mth Southmoor
GEORGE APPLEBY 26 brother U Coal Miner Sherrif Hill
HO1072389 515 48

1881 he is with Joseph Pyle and family and is described as Uncle b Gateshead

1891 Front St Cassop Durham
George Appleby lodger 67 U  Coal Miner Sherrif Hill
lodging with the Brown and Howe families
RG12 4103 20 5

I'll see what else I can find

Suz

[RHP485]

Hi - Suz
Until now I had never heard of the name Appleby being connected to my family. If George Appleby was Joseph Pyle's uncle then it assumes that his mam or dad may have had a sister who married someone called Appleby. Now the information I have is that his late mother Harriet (Thomas's wife) was a Dawson before she married Thomas.
Of course she could have had a sister who married a Appleby. In the case of Thomas that was murdered I don't know if he had a sister because I have had trouble finding his parents and any information going further back from there. If Thomas's parents were Thomas born 1782/1783 and Harriet (Nee: Kirtley) Pyle born 1793/1794 as I believe they were then I found a reference to Mary Ann Pyle christened 14 Oct 1832 who would have been Thomas's sister. If this is correct then she may have married George Appleby. I also found an Edward Pyle born 1842 and another Ann Pyle born 1851. Again not sure if these are Thomas's brother and sisters.     

Robert

[suzard]

George Appleby was single so wondering where uncle came from?

the baptism you found of Mary Ann would be Thomas'sister

1841 Matthew St Kelloe Durham
Thomas Pyle 58 coal miner No
Harriet 50 S
Thomas 11 yes
Mary 9 Y
Edward 3 N
Ho107 313 14

1851 Harriet is 57 and a widow occ Straw hat maker Edward 12 Thomas 21 Harriet 19 and Ann 8mths - Ann is down as daughter but think she is more lkely Granddaughter

Will try to find who the children married

Suz

[suzard]

1861 Pump Row framwellgate Durham
Edward Pyle Head M 23 Coal Miner Gosforth northumberland
Ann Pyle wife M 19 Wales
Mary A Pyle 1mth Castle Eden Durham
Harriet Pyle Mother widow Scotland
RG9 3738 99 25

couldn't find the marriage of Edward and Ann in England or Wales

think this is the daughter Birth reg Mar qtr 1861 Easington Mary Ann Pyle -mother's maiden name Edwards

so looked for a marriage of Ann Edwards and Edward Pyle c 1860

and all I could find was this
Marriage 21 Oct 1860 Monk Hestleton Durham
Ann Edwards father Thomas Edwards
married
Edward HODGSON father Thomas Hodgson
?

I know Edward was baptised Pyle but......

Suz

[suzard]

I cannot find an Edward Hodgson with wife Ann in the right place at the right time and it has just reminded me of a friend's family history which I researched for their 60th birthday He always thought his great grandparents (who he knew when he was younger) never married as no certificate could be found
I knew the gt grandmothers maiden name and found a marriage to a man with same forenames as Gt Granddad but different surname
I ordered the certificate and it was the one we were searching for - there was a note written on the certificate words to the effect that the marriage had been resworn on a later date in front of the registrar to state Granddad was known by a different surname (which was the name all of his descendants were using)
It transpired that Gt Granddad was illegitimate and a few years later his mother had married the man whose name the family took - but was not the father of Gt Granddad- mother had never told Gt Granddad the correct name . The family I was researching for became multi millionaires and have several businesses using the name which is not rightly theirs but a name they are very proud of
I have never come across this before or since -but maybe something similar happened with your family ?

Maybe it would be an idea to risk purchasing the marriage certificate

Suz

[RHP485]

In your recent reply you mention that the 1851 census shows Harriet is 57 living with others in her household. The record I have found for the same census date lists only Harriet at 57 and her daughter Mary Ann Pyle 19 (born 1832) single and a straw hat maker. No other family members are listed. HO107 2394 / 143 Page 8.
I have just located a Mary Ann Pyle marrying a John Cuthbertson in 1854 at Durham. This could be the same Mary Ann as she would have been 22 years old then.
I believe that this Harriet Pyle was Thomas's, (the one who was murdered) mother and this Mary Ann Pyle was his sister. Thomas's wife Harriet was born in 1832 so would have been only been 19 in 1851.
The confusing thing here is that my information is that Thomas's (the one who was murdered) mother and father had the same first names, Thomas and Harriett and were born in 1780s/1790s and had similar named children and Thomas had similar named siblings.
I will carry on with my search for information from 1790s and beyond.

Robert.   

[RHP485]

I have just found a John Appleby Christrened 20 May 1819 and a George Appleby born 28 June 1824 at gateshead to the same parents, John and Hannah Appleby. These birth dates seem to fit in with the ages found in the 1851 census.

Robert