Author Topic: Sweden : Karen Kajsa Nilsdatter b. Naes Varmland 21 June 1836 or 3 July 1836 ??  (Read 491 times)

Offline jila

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Trying to find the correct Karen ( Kajsa/ Caisa) Nilsdatter-born 1836 in Naes Varmland Sweden:

She married Johan Frederik Amundsen in Norway:

Name    Caisa (Karen) Nilsdr
Gender    Female
Age    27
Birth Date    1836
Marriage Date    14 Dec 1863
Marriage Place    Domkirken, Oslo, Akershus, Norway
~~~~~~~~------
Her daughter Anna:
Name    Anna Marie Johansen
Gender    Female
Birth Date    28 Jun 1865
Baptism Date    24 Jun 1866
Baptism Place    Domkirken, Oslo, Akershus, Norway
Father    Johan Fredrik Amundsen
Mother    Kaisa Nilsen
----------------------------------------------
Census: 1865- she says she is from Fødested:Sverge Vermelandsass
             1875-Karen Nielsen hm f Hjula 1836 Næs Sverige Værmeland
             1900-Karen Amundsen    1836.06.21 Vermlandsnæs    el    kone    Vaskekone

I had a internet helper in 2002- who searched for Karen ( kasja) birth parish record- but could not find her born 21 june 1836- but he did in fact find her registered on 3 July 1836: "Baptism
3 Jul 1836 • Huggenas Parish Varmland Sweden

Name: Kajsa Nilsdotter Female Baptism Date:3 Jul 1836 Baptism Place:HUGGENAS, VARMLAND Birth Date: 03 Jul 1836 Father: Nils Hansson Mother Lisa Olofdttr.. apparently the  Julian calendar birth date 21 June 1836 = 3 July 1836 or vice versa.. as the two calendars were 12 dys difference in the dates in the year 1836

Can anyone help me confirm that the Karen (Cajsa/Kasja) who married Johan F. Amundsen is the same one who was born 3 July 1836 in Huggenas Varmland ?

I would love to solve this puzzle ?? can anyone help?

Thanks alot
Jila




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Offline jamcat95

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Re: Sweden : Karen Kajsa Nilsdatter b. Naes Varmland 21 June 1836 or 3 July 1836 ??
« Reply #1 on: Friday 17 August 18 10:27 BST (UK) »
Hi
A difficult one this one.

According to her marriage record her father was Nils Nilsson. If we believe this to be correct then the Nils Hansson from Huggenäs is incorrect:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mj5/ - nr 112

This is the family in Huggenäs in 1852:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mj7/

Here is Cajsa Nilsdotter in Huggenäs in 1855:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mj8/ - she left for Hurum, Norway in 1855

Cajsa Nilsdotter birth in By Parish (not Huggenäs):
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mj9/


Also, I have never seen Swedish or Norwegian birth dates re-calculated according to the different calenders. So I do believe if she was born on 21 June 1836 then she was more than likely born on that date. I think we should be looking for this date of birth.

I'll keep looking for anything else.


Ian




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Offline jila

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Re: Sweden : Karen Kajsa Nilsdatter b. Naes Varmland 21 June 1836 or 3 July 1836 ??
« Reply #2 on: Friday 17 August 18 18:50 BST (UK) »
Hi Ian,

Thanks for the reply- hope you are doing well:)

Yes it is a BIG problem for me :( If I can find both Karen ( Kajsa) then I would be able to exclude one of them ?

Is there any place I could find a record to confirm Karen ( Kasja/ Caisa) date of birth? Any records you can think of that might show the 21 June 1836 Date ?

All Censuses in Norway -1865,1875,1885,1900- all show she was born in Naes or Vermelandnaes. The 1900 Census is the only one that shows a date though..(the other just show 1836 )

Yes, the 14 Dec 1863 Marriage record does show her father as Nils Nilsen- but I am not sure that is correct? Can you find any more info about this Karen? Perhaps the Banns would help ? There must be some record - I just cant think where to look? 

Can you find the Karen ( Kasja)( birth date-21 June 1836)- moving to Norway?? or on a Swedish family census? or on the 1855 Census

I have most of the records about the Karen(kajsa) born 3 July 1836- she moved to Hurum in 1855- as her father also moved there then. Nils Hansson Ringsfelt drown in the Fjord in 1861- so I thought perhaps Karen's brother Nils Nilsen (b.1843) was the witness at her wedding in place of her father?

I know my internet helper Tommy - was the one who couldnt find Kajsa/Caisa - born 21 June 1836 -the only one he could find is the one born 3 July 1836- then he explained the different calendars etc.. Apparently in 1836 -there was 12 days difference between the 2 Calendars.

I was just getting used to the Old Norwegian Genealogy site and then they changed it- I am sorry I am not very good at the new one..:(

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me :)

Cheers !






Offline jamcat95

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Re: Sweden : Karen Kajsa Nilsdatter b. Naes Varmland 21 June 1836 or 3 July 1836 ??
« Reply #3 on: Friday 17 August 18 18:52 BST (UK) »
Hi
I looked through the censuses and records looking for any clues in Norway but nothing came up. I'll post these originals but you probably have them:


1863 Marriage - Johan and Karen:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mjm/

1865 Birth - Anna Marie:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mjl/

1865 Census - Johan and Karen:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mjn/

1875 Birth - Caroline Else:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mjk/

1875 Census - Karen and daughters:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/52055/6278 - You'll have to go back 2 pages to see the opposite page

1885 Census - Karen:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mjo/

1900 Census - Karen:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mji/

1900 Census - Johan:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mjj/


Ian



Offline jamcat95

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Re: Sweden : Karen Kajsa Nilsdatter b. Naes Varmland 21 June 1836 or 3 July 1836 ??
« Reply #4 on: Friday 17 August 18 18:58 BST (UK) »
Hi Ian,

Thanks for the reply- hope you are doing well:)

Yes it is a BIG problem for me :( If I can find both Karen ( Kajsa) then I would be able to exclude one of them ?

Is there any place I could find a record to confirm Karen ( Kasja/ Caisa) date of birth? Any records you can think of that might show the 21 June 1836 Date ? .............................


I'm fine thanks.
As there seems nothing in Norway left to find apart from the banns I'll continue in Sweden. I'll see if I can find a bann somewhere.

Ian


Offline jila

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Re: Sweden : Karen Kajsa Nilsdatter b. Naes Varmland 21 June 1836 or 3 July 1836 ??
« Reply #5 on: Friday 17 August 18 19:30 BST (UK) »
Hi again,

Yes, I think I have those records- Thanks.

I am not sure what info is given on the Banns, Best Man Statements or I think there is some court thing when a child is born out of wedlock-where the father has to pay money for the child- (I forget what it is called)

Karen's daughter Caroline Elise b. 19 July 1875 is my G grandmother. Her father is listed as Ole Nilsen- b. 1847 Hedmarken and I really need to confirm his parents etc also - I do not know much about him. I have a couple possible matches for him as he would be in Oslo in 1875 & there were several on the Census.. He is listed on Caroline's Birth, Marriage records so must have been in her life??

Caroline married Peter Bernhard Peterson/Pedersen-6 April 1896 • Paulos Menighet Olso Akershus Norway..Married under Karoline Elise Nilsen Father shown = Ole Nilsen Peter Petersen's father= klaudius Magnus Pedersen..

Peter & Caroline had several children prior to their marriage :Spouse & Children

    Peter Pete Bernhard (DNA) Pedersen Peterson Petterson Allen
    1872–1949
    Magnus Olaf Klaudius Pederson Pedersen Peterson
    1892–1933
    Hilmer Hilmar Eugen Pedersen
    1894–1900
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Then others in Norway after marriage :


Ellef Elf Alf Bernholt Petersen
1897–1900
Ella Karen Johanne (DNA) Pettersdatter Pedersen Pettersen
1899–1958
Mary Katrine Katherine Petterson Peterson
1902–1976

Eugen & Elf died in Norway- family story was they were eating wild flowers & died

Maybe there might be more Karen ( kasja) information on any of the above records though?

Sorry I am not much help :(

Cheers! ( Glad you are doing ok :)


Offline jila

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Re: Sweden : Karen Kajsa Nilsdatter b. Naes Varmland 21 June 1836 or 3 July 1836 ??
« Reply #6 on: Friday 17 August 18 20:17 BST (UK) »
Hi Ian,


Re: https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20060215030467.jpg


On this Marriage record there is 2 names? in a column- just after the middle of the page:

Looks like Torsten Linne____?? then next column- it says 4 Oct ??
               Johan Andreasen......then next column- 11 & blow that 19

Does this means anything ??

Jila

Offline jila

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Re: Sweden : Karen Kajsa Nilsdatter b. Naes Varmland 21 June 1836 or 3 July 1836 ??
« Reply #7 on: Friday 17 August 18 20:44 BST (UK) »
Is Varmskog in Naes Varmland ?

I seem to have a DNA match with someone with this Nils in their tree?

Name:    Nils Nilsson
Gender:    Male
Marriage Date:    26 dec 1815
Marriage Place:    Varmskog, Varmland, Sweden
Spouse:    Lisa Nilsdr

Cant seem to see the connection at the moment :( 

Offline jamcat95

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Re: Sweden : Karen Kajsa Nilsdatter b. Naes Varmland 21 June 1836 or 3 July 1836 ??
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 18 August 18 09:20 BST (UK) »

Yes, the 14 Dec 1863 Marriage record does show her father as Nils Nilsen- but I am not sure that is correct? Can you find any more info about this Karen? Perhaps the Banns would help ? There must be some record - I just cant think where to look? 


Well, I am not too sure what to make about this bann record. It says that she was from Huggenäs and the father was recorded as Nils Nilsen as the marriage record. Maybe I am incorrect in my assumption of the birth dates or there is another Karen/Cajsa somewhere there......
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mjr/ - 4th from bottom.


Ian

added:
I think this is her actually. Everything seems to fit. Now to find her in Hurum Parish, which there are 2 of them.