Author Topic: John Daniel  (Read 331 times)

Offline danny94

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John Daniel
« on: Friday 17 August 18 20:31 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone,

I've been having a nightmare with one branch of my tree for years, and I'm really stuck.

John DANIEL is my g-g-g-g-grandfather but brought up my g-g-grandfather, David John DANIEL as if he was his father. He seems a bit of a character, he was a publican in his spare time and also a tinplate hammerman. He was fined after a court case for fraudulent entries in his brewing book in 1895. He was also buried complete with victualers grape regalia on his headstone at the nonconformist Mynyddbach Chapel graveyard in Swansea. He appears on every census between 1871 and 1911, and dies in 1920. But, I can find no obituary, nor any other info in the local paper, in spite of his daughter working for the South Wales Daily Post.

The biggest problem is that I cannot trace him back before the 1867 marriage record.

I have a marriage certificate for John DANIEL and his wife Mary Ann HUMPHREYS, they married in 1867 in Swansea. Their fathers are listed as David HUMPHREYS (correct), and Dennis DANIEL (deceased copper man). I cannot find any record of a Dennis DANIEL anywhere, I presume he's fictional. The witnesses are Eliza RICHARDS and William DAVIES.

Now, the death certificate suggests he was born in 1841, he was 79 when he died in December 1920. The censuses say he was born around 1843-45. The reason I bring this up is because there is a baptism record from 1844 for a John DANIEL to an Eliza DANIEL (single woman). Eliza also had another child, Eliza Jr. in 1842, but she died just five months later. I cannot find anyone that seems to match Eliza DANIEL either (though I suspected Eliza RICHARDS might be her, I cannot corroborate it), the only one that comes close and would be the right age is an Eliza DANIEL who was the daughter who didn't marry in a fairly affluent middle class family in the town. Potentially, John could have been her child who was sent away?

Alternatively, Dennis is a misprint? Is it likely the registrar mis-transcribed it? There are other families which could fit who all have similar names to those in John DANIEL's family, lots of Elizabeths, Davids, Sarahs, Marys, and Williams.

The only other document available is a birth certificate from 1838 for a John DANIEL, but I've hesitated getting it as I doubt it's my John DANIEL.

Other information worth knowing:
1871 census: records him living with an Ann DANIEL, b. Swansea, unmarried, a servant, aged 13
1881 census: records him living with an Ann DAVIES, b. Swansea, unmarried, a servant, aged 20
1911 census: records him living with an Ann DAVIES, b. Swansea, married with 1 deceased child, aged 50.
There's also a niece, Mary REES, who is a nursemaid, living with them in 1881, b. Llangwynyd (a small village near Bridgend), but she seems to be a dead end.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated

Dan

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Re: John Daniel
« Reply #1 on: Friday 17 August 18 21:39 BST (UK) »
Just been looking through the information you give, and haven't yet had a chance to check out the facts.  However, one thought regarding John Daniel, being a Tinplate Hammerman, is that he might not always have been working in Swansea.  The labour market was quite volatile during the period, and people moved  from one employer to another.  So whilst he may have been in Swansea a lot of the time, it doesn't necessarily mean he was always there.

Will scuttle off now and see what I can find, following the facts you've given.  Incidentally, I live in Wales and know Swansea and the industrial areas of the valleys relatively well.

Regards
GS
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Re: John Daniel
« Reply #2 on: Friday 17 August 18 21:55 BST (UK) »
Looking at his death certificate, am I reading it correctly, that he died at the Station Inn, Landore, Swansea?
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Re: John Daniel
« Reply #3 on: Friday 17 August 18 21:57 BST (UK) »
I see that D J Daniel, grandson, who was present at the death, was the informant shown on the death certificate.  Am I right in assuming that this is David John Daniel, your grandfather?
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: John Daniel
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 18 August 18 11:52 BST (UK) »
Is this the 1838 birth that you are hesitant about?

DANIEL, JOHN       TERRY     
GRO Reference: 1838  M Quarter in SWANSEA UNION  Volume 26  Page 400

mmn Terry
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline danny94

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Re: John Daniel
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 21 August 18 02:14 BST (UK) »
I see that D J Daniel, grandson, who was present at the death, was the informant shown on the death certificate.  Am I right in assuming that this is David John Daniel, your grandfather?

He died at No. 3 Station Road in Landore. Swansea. He was previously the publican at the Corner House Inn Beershop, at nearby Brynhyfryd.

He is my great-great-grandfather. His father (David Daniel) was John Daniel's son. He is listed as John Daniel's son in 1901, but his father David had died from tuberculosis and his mother Sarah went to America.

Offline danny94

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Re: John Daniel
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 21 August 18 12:46 BST (UK) »
Is this the 1838 birth that you are hesitant about?

DANIEL, JOHN       TERRY     
GRO Reference: 1838  M Quarter in SWANSEA UNION  Volume 26  Page 400

mmn Terry

That's the one yep!

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: John Daniel
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 21 August 18 14:40 BST (UK) »
I'm just wondering if John Daniel was baptised as a non-conformist.

There are non-conformist records on Ancestry but I don't have a sub to check out the one possible whose parents are given as William & Alicia.

The record on Ancestry is this one:-

All England & Wales, Non-Conformist and Non-Parochial Registers, 1567-1970

If you can access this then you can check for yourself, if not you will have to hope a Rootschatter can do so for you.

He may not be your John but I though it might be worth checking.

There is another website called BMD Registers that has non-conformists records.

https://bmdregisters.co.uk/

You could check that one as well.  You would need to pay to view details from results.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline danny94

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Re: John Daniel
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 22 August 18 20:04 BST (UK) »
Thank you!

Just had a check, don't think it's the one unfortunately.

Back to the grind - I'll update if I find anything.