Author Topic: Father not recorded a mystery of the two Emmas Knights  (Read 2807 times)

Offline scarlettslipper

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Re: Father not recorded a mystery of the two Emmas Knights
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 21 August 18 22:24 BST (UK) »
Hi Heywood I should have been more than happy to be able to follow one Emma Knight around the country let alone two who worked together, Emma senior the ladies maid and general servant in Swaylands House, Penshurst and her daughter Emma Jane the Nurse at Belgrave Square later on she too went off to Swaylands.
The Drummonds must have been out on the night of that census possibly travelling abroad with theyre children as theyre not shown on the 1901 census for Belgrave Square perhaps they were at theyre bank house in Charing Cross as you said no 17.
They were bankers in a very old London bank which was used by royalty of the time and seem to have been born in Stanmore Middlesex inter marrying with the Manners family at various points. I suppose that explains Drummonds at Belvoir on 1871 and in Knipton at the Drummond household. George James Drummonds wife was Elizabeth Cecile Drummond nee Norman whose mother was Adeliza Norman nee Manners she married Reverend Norman He was the rector at Bottesford the ancient family church and tangled up in the Manners family too. There are also these combinations at Belvoir census a Robert Norman Manners cousin,an Alfred Manners Drummond, Elizabeth Fredericka Drummond nee Manners- Charles Manners- Duke of Rutlands sister  and George Manners brother of Charles Manners DoRutland.
I found that the english aristocracy seemed to make dynastic marriages amongst themselves so can be quite intertwined genetically. Although the Drummonds seem a very kindly family to have kept the two Emmas on long after they were nurse and a ladies maid. ::)

Online heywood

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Re: Father not recorded a mystery of the two Emmas Knights
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 21 August 18 22:45 BST (UK) »
The Drummond family are at Swaylands in 1901 with a host of servants etc.
Emma snr is listed.

1891 census also shows all the houses in Belgrave Square with just a few servants. I presume they were just their ‘London homes’.

I had read about the banking family as a result of this interesting thread.

I just did not understand about Emma Jane  being a nurse in the household of the  Duke of Rutland when it seems clear that she was employed by the Drummonds, for the main part in Kent.
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Offline scarlettslipper

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Re: Father not recorded a mystery of the two Emmas Knights
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 21 August 18 23:16 BST (UK) »
Well Heywood thanks for your input,  but you must remember I am just a newbie at this and it took me a while to sort out the two Emmas to begin with.  Im guessing the older Emma threw me out a bit now I realise she started off at Belvoir and worked with the Drummond Norman household and secured a position for daughter Emma Jane as a nurse. Id really love to know if Emma Jane ever travelled abroad with the Drummond's as the children she looked after at Knipton , Adeliza, Cecilia and Ida M Drummond were grandchildren of Lady Adeliza Gertrude Manners who died in 1877 she was the 5th Dukes daughter. She must have adored her grandchildren they added to theyre family as well and I have records for all of them and they mostly all died in the mid 1960's except for one or two of the elder ones. It may be possible the Lucans' banked with Drummonds im sure most of society seemed to have theyre custom. Its touching that they valued the two Emma's from fenland Swineshead so much family retainers if you like. :'(

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Re: Father not recorded a mystery of the two Emmas Knights
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 21 August 18 23:26 BST (UK) »
Hopefully they were good employers as the two ladies remained with them for many years.

I have just looked at Find my Past newspaper records. I can only see snippets -you need a subscription.

These are some mentions
August 1917
Banker leaves ...
£100 to Emma Knight late his children’s nurse.

December 1943
Miss Emma Jane Knight 92yrs
A sweet and outstanding personality. She had been the nurse and greatly beloved  friend of the late Mr and Mrs George Drummond, their children and grandchildren..

Isn’t that lovely!
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Re: Father not recorded a mystery of the two Emmas Knights
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 21 August 18 23:40 BST (UK) »
Another one
December 1943
 “One of the oldest members our Club, Miss Emma Knight, aged 93. is lying seriously ill, and I would like us to send her many happy thoughts. She is wonderful little lady and I shall always feel privileged te have met her.”

Sorry, if you already have these plus do you have her will details?

Emma Jane Knight died December 1943 - probate granted to a solicitor.
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Re: Father not recorded a mystery of the two Emmas Knights
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 22 August 18 00:01 BST (UK) »
Emma Knight snr’s probate

‘Of Swineshead, Lincolnshire , spinster died August 1914.
Probate to Maurice Joseph Johnson, estate agent and Emma Jane Knight, spinster.’
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Offline scarlettslipper

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Re: Father not recorded a mystery of the two Emmas Knights
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 22 August 18 00:07 BST (UK) »
Hi Heywood that's Absolutely made me weep!
I knew Emma Jane was more than just the children's nurse.
She was a much loved and valued friend to this family over generations. Being the women she was described as in your clipping (which I shall treasure) she was motivated by love,  for George James Drummond who was only two years younger than her,  his wife,  children and grandchildren. I am thinking of writing an account of her as there will be much to write about and she deserves it.
You have absolutely put the icing on the cake for me,  by your kindness in sharing your clippings, well thats no too well put, but thanks im still wiping moist eyes.  :-*

Offline scarlettslipper

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Re: Father not recorded a mystery of the two Emmas Knights
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 22 August 18 00:19 BST (UK) »
Sorry its me again had to break to feed the cat - so I just missed those Will snippets and the other cuttings of news of her illness, that's really blown me away, I don't have those and Never would have discovered them Either! you've definitely spurred me on to write a book of her life now.
 
Was doing some research into
Celtic studies but will now abandon them for the writing of Emma Jane's story which I sure will exert a fascination for readers as its totally gripped me :)  perhaps I shall present a copy to Belvoir Castle if its well written enough it would merit that.
Better sign off the midnight hour is here but you are Very generous indeed

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Re: Father not recorded a mystery of the two Emmas Knights
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 22 August 18 00:21 BST (UK) »
If you go to Find my past and search the Newspaper records - her name and Swaylands you can see the snippets.
They are to be treasured - she seemed to be a lovely lady from the notice when she was ill.
You can also order copies of the wills.

Did you see this - the Drummonds with Princess Mary of Teck (later Queen Mary)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Princess_Mary_of_Teck_at_Swaylands.jpg

Here it is again with more information re the family.

https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Swaylands

Good luck with the account  :)
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