Author Topic: 50 year closure on Marriages  (Read 8212 times)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: 50 year closure on Marriages
« Reply #27 on: Monday 03 September 18 04:34 BST (UK) »
JM,

What I was expressing to Ruskie earlier on in this thread, info. outwith the privacy dates for online 'downloads' for Scottish certs. are still accessible via ordering at full price as opposed to the cheaper versions outwith the privacy periods at a fraction of the price but for the certs. outwith the privacy terms there's no need to 'prove' any relationship to the person you wish to order a cert for as long as you pay the fee.

It's a worry of course to some who wish anonimity although personally, I have no problem being a 'secret' as there's far more recent info. available about me via many sources from business adverts, electoral rolls, phonebook entries etc.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline majm

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Re: 50 year closure on Marriages
« Reply #28 on: Monday 03 September 18 04:51 BST (UK) »
Hi Annie,

In Australia, each of the eight jurisdictions have their own parliaments, making eight sets of laws, PLUS there's the Federal law coming out of Canberra.   But all of those 8 jurisdictions restrict access to the bdms for their state/territory.  It doesn't matter if they are ordered online or in person, the same restrictions apply.   If I want my own birth details, (NSW bdm, registered in rural NSW 1947), I need 100 points of ID before they will consider processing my application.  Unless you are named on that document, you have NO chance of obtaining it, until 2047.   My younger siblings cannot obtain it, but my older siblings can, for they are named on it.  My parents can too, as they are both named on it.   
If I consider my 1974 NSW marriage,  there's a great deal of sensitive information on it that is simply NOT available for members of the general public to access.  The information is not anywhere else on the web.  There's no submitted trees online naming my parents or myself or my siblings.  Similiarly for my other living relatives who are family history buffs.  Nope, trees are not online.  My sister in law (the one who is a family history buff) has a tree online... does not include her own generation or her parents generation.   

This is not a matter of 'secrecy', it is a matter of respect for the legal expectation of privacy of the individual that has been a tenet of the Australian Democracy for decades and decades, even back into the 1810s when those who had been transported but had served their sentence ie were emancipated, and therefore free, were outnumbering those who were still under sentence.   :)

Back at reply #1  I posted the following link  :)   https://www.oaic.gov.au/resources/agencies-and-organisations/guides/what-is-personal-information.pdf   So, in Australia, the concept of privacy of the individual is very different from the UK one.     :)

JM
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Offline Westward

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Re: 50 year closure on Marriages
« Reply #29 on: Monday 03 September 18 04:53 BST (UK) »
Hi JM,

What is more concerning is I have just found a full copy of my parents marriage certificate as signed by them in the Church which is downloadable on Ancestry.   My main concern is that some Banks use mother's maiden name as security question.  I suppose I should be pleased I have not had to pay to get a full copy of this certificate but I do wonder how it came about.  Does Ancestry have permission from the Registry to do this?  I rather think not as the Registry would be missing out on the fee.

As far as only family historians being interested in these details, I feel hackers all over the world would love to get their hands on such sensitive information, just as the Police and other authorities love Facebook. 

Andcarred

I have found many certificates on Ancestry. I don't think they vet what people post and the privacy rules from governments don't apply if they have source information provided by other organisations. I have used the certificates in my research.

 I am of the school that has no problems with the 50 year access to marriage certificates. There are many ways other than certificates that someone's maiden name can be determined. In the US most women use their maiden name as their middle name after marriage. Having married in 1968 I was quite pleased to have moved into history & found myself online  :)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: 50 year closure on Marriages
« Reply #30 on: Monday 03 September 18 05:28 BST (UK) »
JM,

"This is not a matter of 'secrecy',"..

My quote "I have no problem being a 'secret' " was to outline the fact, there's more info. available about me online (of recent dates) which could possibly/probably identify me if anyone was intent on discovering who I am for whatever reason?
They may be scuppered/confused if researching what's available online as my marriage will not appear on the Scottish records system as I was married abroad i.e. may cause a dilemma/curiosity as to why I'm not on SP marriages  ;D

I find this hillarious for my future descendants as it will give them something to ponder (as I've had to do) in my own research with an unmarried direct ancestor with 7 illegitimate children with 3 different surnames (using father's surnames) but fun to research although frustrating along the way until I nailed them all  :D

Annie

South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"


Offline majm

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Re: 50 year closure on Marriages
« Reply #31 on: Monday 03 September 18 06:35 BST (UK) »
Hi JM,

What is more concerning is I have just found a full copy of my parents marriage certificate as signed by them in the Church which is downloadable on Ancestry.   My main concern is that some Banks use mother's maiden name as security question.  I suppose I should be pleased I have not had to pay to get a full copy of this certificate but I do wonder how it came about.  Does Ancestry have permission from the Registry to do this?  I rather think not as the Registry would be missing out on the fee.

As far as only family historians being interested in these details, I feel hackers all over the world would love to get their hands on such sensitive information, just as the Police and other authorities love Facebook. 

Andcarred

I have found many certificates on Ancestry. I don't think they vet what people post and the privacy rules from governments don't apply if they have source information provided by other organisations. I have used the certificates in my research.

 I am of the school that has no problems with the 50 year access to marriage certificates. There are many ways other than certificates that someone's maiden name can be determined. In the US most women use their maiden name as their middle name after marriage. Having married in 1968 I was quite pleased to have moved into history & found myself online  :)

I read the Opening Post as though Andcarred is referring to New South Wales BDM restrictions for accessing their marriage registrations.  I doubt there's many ways to determine my maiden name without accessing NSW BDM records.    I have tried, so too have my elderly rellies, including retired clergy, retired Archivist, retired senior officers from NSW BDM and we have challenged the younger set to finding us online....  they have not yet succeeded, despite being given clues like: 

Try Trove,  try Ancestry, try Find My Past, try NSW state library, try online indexes.  none of my generation or those two generations still living, and older than me ... have facebook or similar.  The younger set know NOT to share info about us, no photos, no identifying words... 
 

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline Billyblue

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Re: 50 year closure on Marriages
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 04 September 18 08:29 BST (UK) »
Many - and I mean MANY - years ago, the RGs of the various states and territories in Australia came together and decided on the closure periods.  But then they didn't all implement the same thing!
[It was some time in the 1980s I believe]
They decided 100 years for births; 80 years for marriages; 30 years for deaths.
This, they thought, meant that there would be few people still alive whom the birth and marriage periods would not 'protect'.

At that stage, privacy laws as we now know them did not exist, nor did the current problem of hackers, scammers and the like.

Dawn M

Denys (France); Rossier/Rousseau (Switzerland); Montgomery (Antrim, IRL & North Sydney NSW);  Finn (Co.Carlow, IRL & NSW); Wilson (Leicestershire & NSW); Blue (Sydney NSW); Fisher & Barrago & Harrington(all Tipperary, IRL)

Offline Westward

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Re: 50 year closure on Marriages
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 05 September 18 05:52 BST (UK) »


I read the Opening Post as though Andcarred is referring to New South Wales BDM restrictions for accessing their marriage registrations.  I doubt there's many ways to determine my maiden name without accessing NSW BDM records.   


JM

You must have a limited internet presence. My mother's maiden name and my maiden name are online with the SMH notice of my birth. Very easy to find. My marriage notice can also be found in the NSWSL and the NLA SMH images. My mothers maiden and married name is on her memorial inscription and on the funeral notice which can be found in local newspapers (index on the Ryerson Index). My married name is on that funeral notice, so not difficult to determine my maiden name from said notice. Her maiden name is also in archive records related to her profession before marriage. My husband and his siblings can be found in the Qld archives school records.

I didn't know it was compulsory on this website  to discuss only the exact item as mentioned by the OP. As I demonstrate above, there are many ways to find out a person's maiden name without reference to the NSW BDM records. Consequently I don't have a problem with finding my marriage in the NSW indexes.

I understand that others may not agree with me, but I disagree that the information for many people cannot be found elsewhere, I have found it for many of the people I have researched without access to their marriage certificate.
 

Offline Westward

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Re: 50 year closure on Marriages
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 05 September 18 06:01 BST (UK) »

They may be scuppered/confused if researching what's available online as my marriage will not appear on the Scottish records system as I was married abroad i.e. may cause a dilemma/curiosity as to why I'm not on SP marriages  ;D

Annie

hehehehe - I've been married twice - in 2 different Australian states. Those trying to find my birth from any death notices/memorial inscriptions could have problems - well at least I hope they do. Like to leave the odd puzzle for someone to discuss online.  ;D




Offline majm

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Re: 50 year closure on Marriages
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 05 September 18 06:14 BST (UK) »


I read the Opening Post as though Andcarred is referring to New South Wales BDM restrictions for accessing their marriage registrations.  I doubt there's many ways to determine my maiden name without accessing NSW BDM records.   


JM

You must have a limited internet presence. ...... 
 

Nope,  My commercial business has been (as early as 1991) and continues to be quite active and has a full internet presence.

I actually wrote :
....

I read the Opening Post as though Andcarred is referring to New South Wales BDM restrictions for accessing their marriage registrations.  I doubt there's many ways to determine my maiden name without accessing NSW BDM records.    I have tried, so too have my elderly rellies, including retired clergy, retired Archivist, retired senior officers from NSW BDM and we have challenged the younger set to finding us online....  they have not yet succeeded, despite being given clues like: 

Try Trove,  try Ancestry, try Find My Past, try NSW state library, try online indexes.  none of my generation or those two generations still living, and older than me ... have facebook or similar.  The younger set know NOT to share info about us, no photos, no identifying words... 

....

   

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.