Newbie brick wall Holmes, Sheffield, Liverpool, Leeds

[candrjm]

Possibly another child:

BURNS, SELINA        MMN WILD      
GRO Reference: 1844  M Quarter in SHEFFIELD  Volume 22  Page 602

Edit:

Baptism:

Name    Selena Burns
Gender    Female
Christening Date    27 Apr 1845
Christening Date (Original)    27 APR 1845
Christening Place    Sheffield, York, England
Father's Name    Thos. Burnes
Mother's Name    Elizth. Wilde

[smithkei]

Thanks. Much appreciated. But in Elizabeth’s marriage to James Oct 1854 she is 19 which puts her DOB around 1835 not 1838.

[candrjm]

In 1871 census Elizabeth is recorded as being born c1836
In 1861 census posted by Rossie she is recorded as aged 24 so born c1837
If the death in 1878 that I gave is correct she is recorded aged 41 so born c1837

Perhaps she lied when marrying

[rosie99]

You cannot rely on ages being accurate around those times.

The baptism for Elizabeth daughter of Thomas & Harriet was Sept. 1837.
1841 (6 June)      age 3
1851 (30 March)  age 14    (HO107/2379 f227 p19 )
1861 (7 April)      age 24
1871 (2 April)      age 35

These ages are fairly constant. 
Beat me to it candrjm

[candrjm]

Baptism: 12 Jan 1834 Collegiate, Manchester, Lancashire, England
James Holmes, Born at Dumfries - Son of John Holmes & Mary
    Born: 8 Sep 1830
    Abode: Manch.
    Occupation: Mason
    Baptised by: R. Remington
    Register: Baptisms 1834, Page 22, Entry 173
    Source: LDS Film 2357018

[smithkei]

This family may need investigating on other census in case it is your James

1851 - HO107 / 2228 f453 p18
Elliott Street, Manchester
Jonathan Holme age 39 bn Lancaster
Mary 35 bn Lancaster
Rest of family bn Manchester including a James age 13

Thanks . Based on his marriages and other census James birth around 1833/4 so this seems not to fit.

[smithkei]

You cannot rely on ages being accurate around those times.

The baptism for Elizabeth daughter of Thomas & Harriet was Sept. 1837.
1841 (6 June)      age 3
1851 (30 March)  age 14    (HO107/2379 f227 p19 )
1861 (7 April)      age 24
1871 (2 April)      age 35

These ages are fairly constant. 
Beat me to it candrjm

Thanks, but in the other examples of this family given earlier the mother is Elizabeth Wild, not Harriet?

[smithkei]

I thought I'd do a quick summary of where we are:

1 Annie Nellie Holmes birth and mother solved, thanks. Elizabeth Burns. All other siblings of Annie have a Burns mother. The only one I cant find is James LA born Liverpool acc to census 1869.

2 An Elizabeth Burns married a James Holmes 23/10/1854, Sheffield. His father Joseph, but this does not match James wedding to Jane Wood in Burmantofts Leeds 10/11/1879?? Father John.

3 Census, death and baptism info for Elizabeth Burns point to a birth date of around 1836/7, whereas the above marriage gives 1835. Maybe the marriage is not the correct one? Her age wrong, his father wrong.

4 1861 census for James Holmes Headford St Ecclesall Bierlow, matches his age and childrens ages and Elizabeth. James born Manchester.
1871, Wavertree, Liverpool, all children and ages match, birth place Ecclesfield, Sheffield
1881, Ecclesall Bierlow, all match for age, new wife matches, born Manchester.
1891 census, wife matches, born Ecclesfield
1901 census, again matches, born Grenoside, which is within Ecclesfield.

So in summary sure about that marriage and strange that Manchester and Ecclesfield are mentioned in what appears to be the same family???

[rosie99]

You cannot rely on ages being accurate around those times.

The baptism for Elizabeth daughter of Thomas & Harriet Elizabeth/Eliza was Sept. 1837.
1841 (6 June)      age 3
1851 (30 March)  age 14    (HO107/2379 f227 p19 )
1861 (7 April)      age 24
1871 (2 April)      age 35

These ages are fairly constant. 
Beat me to it candrjm

Thanks, but in the other examples of this family given earlier the mother is Elizabeth Wild, not Harriet?

Sorry I should have said Elizabeth / Eliza this is the baptism I was referring to

A possibility??

England and Wales Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8)
Name    Elizabeth Burne
Event Type    Baptism
Christening Date    17 Sep 1837
Christening Place    Sheffield, Yorkshire
Father's Name    Thomas Burne
Mother's Name    Eliza Burne