Newbie brick wall Holmes, Sheffield, Liverpool, Leeds

[rosie99]

2 An Elizabeth Burns married a James Holmes 23/10/1854, Sheffield. His father Joseph, but this does not match James wedding to Jane Wood in Burmantofts Leeds 10/11/1879?? Father John.

3 Census, death and baptism info for Elizabeth Burns point to a birth date of around 1836/7, whereas the above marriage gives 1835. Maybe the marriage is not the correct one? Her age wrong, his father wrong.

There is a possibility that James Holmes was illegitimate and has made up his fathers name or maybe he just called him 'Pop' and never knew what his name was    When someone married they did not have to prove when they were born so could say any age within reason, they also did not have to prove their fathers details. 

Who were the witnesses to his marriage to Jane, sorry if you have already posted them and I have missed it

[smithkei]

Thanks, witnesses to his second marriage in 1879 were a Dalmer from Jane's side and his daughter from his first marriage, Kate E Holmes/Barnes. The marriage was in Jane's city Leeds. He was 46 then.

[Daisypetal]

HI,

I think Rosie is right about James being illegitimate, I found this baptism at FindMyPast,


St Mary, Ecclesfield, Sheffield 
07 Apr 1833

James
Son of:  Mary HOLMES
Residence:  Grenoside
Occupation:  Single Woman



It looks like Mary also had a daughter, Sarah Anne.


St Mary, Ecclesfield, Sheffield 
21 Oct 1838

Sarah Anne
Daur of:  Mary HOLMES
Residence:  Grenoside
Occupation:  Single Woman



The 1841 census doesn't record relationships but this could be the right family, (which I think you already have), and Joseph might be the father of Mary and the grandfather of James 



1841  HO107/1327/7  f.19  p. 2   Ecclesfield, Wortley, Yorkshire
Grenoside
HOLMES
Joseph       50    Mason
Sarah         55   
Mary           25   
John           20    Mason   
Solomon    15   
Maria         15   
Joshua      12   
James        8   
Harriet        6   
Sarah         3   

All born in Yorkshire.


Regards,
Daisy

[smithkei]

Many thanks for that, I'll take a good look later this week. I'm struggling though to find the family in 1851?

[Daisypetal]

I think Joseph died,

Death
Joseph HOLMES    Sep Q 1848    Wortley Union    22 485
Age:  59


Burial
Parish of Ecclesfield, York
13 Jul 1848
Joseph HOLMES
Abode:  Grenoside
Age:  62
Ceremony performed by:  Jonathan Estwood


The death registration is in the right district but the age is out, this could be because the age would be recorded as whatever the informant says it was.


This looks like Sarah in 1851,

1851  HO107/2335  f.222  p.8  Ecclesfield, Yorkshire 
Registration District: Wortley
Grenoside

HOLMES
Sarah      Head    Wid    67   
Jos^h        Son       U       32    Mason
Joshua    Son       U       23
Sarah      Daur              12
Henry      G Son            14
Ann         G Daur            2    
James    G Son             11    A ?

All born in Yorkshire.


Your James should be 13 but maybe they just made a mistake or the clerk made an error when he was copying the individual form into enumerators book.  Or he could be a son of another of Joseph snd Sarah's chldren


Daisy

[smithkei]

Many thanks for all that. Think I made some progress
Yes I think James and Sarah are the children of Mary, though not proven who the fathers are.
Mary was baptised July 9th 1815 to Joseph and Sarah.
James and Sara's births you already outlined.
Joseph died 1848 so Sarah was Head of house in the 1851 census.
I also believe Mary died in 1841 Wortley Q2 1841 Vol 22 449 though I cant find a substantiating parish record.

[rosie99]

I also believe Mary died in 1841 Wortley Q2 1841 Vol 22 449 though I cant find a substantiating parish record.

The GRO index gives that Mary as age 74 when she died in 1841
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

HOLMES, MARY       age 74     
GRO Reference: 1841  J Quarter in WORTLEY UNION  Volume 22  Page 449   

[smithkei]

Ha. I should have cross checked that. Back to the drawing board!

[smithkei]

I did some more work on this summarised below in pdf. Any comments or help welcome! Thanks for all your help.