Author Topic: John Fleetwood and Mary Mucklow, married 3rd of December 1742  (Read 3687 times)

Offline RobinRedBreast

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Re: John Fleetwood and Mary Mucklow, married 3rd of December 1742
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 04 September 18 21:17 BST (UK) »
Re the baptisms of John Fleetwood jnr, i was getting a bit carried away!

I think he was baptised twice - in 1745 and then again 24 July 1811 at St Matthew, Bethnal Green. The entry states 'John son of John & Mary Fleetwood Born 20th November 1746.'  The only John I could find anywhere near that date, whose parents were John and Mary was the John baptised at Whitechapel in 1745. I think that this John went on to marry Mary Ann Read 25 December 1819 St Matthew, Bethnal Green.

John's brother, William, was buried Christ Church Spitalfields 20 October 1806, aged 54 and again, it is the age that seems to prove this one. Whether this link with Spitalfields indicates a connection to the 1789 settlement certificate is something to ponder!

Thank you.  :)

Offline Suziq2

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Re: John Fleetwood and Mary Mucklow, married 3rd of December 1742
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 04 September 18 21:42 BST (UK) »
No, his parents were Robert (1685-1721) and Jane née Perry.

Offline RobinRedBreast

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Re: John Fleetwood and Mary Mucklow, married 3rd of December 1742
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 04 September 18 22:46 BST (UK) »
No, his parents were Robert (1685-1721) and Jane née Perry.

Aha! Yes I had forgotten that couple.
They were the pair I had on my tree on Ancestry before I scrubbed them off after finding this out here.

Did you manage at all to trace these Fleetwood's back to King John, and King Edward I?

I made a list of the ancestors of Katherine Denny who was the grandmother of the regicide George Fleetwood. Katherine was the wife of Sir George Fleetwood, an MP (1564-1620). She was the granddaughter of Sir Anthony Denny. He was king Henry VIII'S most trusted servant. Anyway, Katherine's ancestors can be traced to King Edward I. Via: the Denny's, the Champernowne's (or Champernon's), the Courtney's, and then Margaret de Bohan (or Bohun) wife of Hugh de Courteney, Earl of Devon. Margaret was the daughter of Princess Elizabeth (1282-1316). Princess Elizabeth was the daughter of King Edward I (1239-1307), and Eleanor of Castille.

Bridget Spring, the wife of Sir Thomas Fleetwood, was a granddaughter of Sir William Waldegrave.  Her ancestors can be traced from the Waldegrave's, through the Wentworth's, and then the Howard's, then de Cornwall's (Earl's of Cornwall), to a Sir Richard Earl of Cornwall (1209-1272). Sir Richard was a son of King John (1166-1216), and Isabella (1188-1246).

Haha! I found it really interesting finding out all of this.  :) ;)

Offline Suziq2

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Re: John Fleetwood and Mary Mucklow, married 3rd of December 1742
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 05 September 18 07:28 BST (UK) »
Yes, apparently a large proportion of the English can trace their ancestry back to Edward I!

Back to your Fleetwood ancestry:

John Fleetwood bap. 2 May 1706 Charterhouse Chapel, Finsbury, also recorded in St Botolph Without Aldgate register, spent a lot of time in Italy, inherited Tadworth Court in 1725 and lived there until he died in 1752.  He was buried Banstead, Surrey, 27 February 1752 - not a weaver!

John Fleetwood bap. 4 January 1700/1701 St Andrew, Holborn - his father, William, was a carpenter, so I doubt that John would have been a weaver.

John Fleetwood bap. 4 December 1707 St Anne & St Agnes, London, son of Robert and Mary is a mystery as I have no further information about him or his parents.  One to chase up!

Good luck!



Offline RobinRedBreast

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Re: John Fleetwood and Mary Mucklow, married 3rd of December 1742
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 05 September 18 11:26 BST (UK) »
Yes, apparently a large proportion of the English can trace their ancestry back to Edward I!

Back to your Fleetwood ancestry:

John Fleetwood bap. 2 May 1706 Charterhouse Chapel, Finsbury, also recorded in St Botolph Without Aldgate register, spent a lot of time in Italy, inherited Tadworth Court in 1725 and lived there until he died in 1752.  He was buried Banstead, Surrey, 27 February 1752 - not a weaver!

John Fleetwood bap. 4 January 1700/1701 St Andrew, Holborn - his father, William, was a carpenter, so I doubt that John would have been a weaver.

John Fleetwood bap. 4 December 1707 St Anne & St Agnes, London, son of Robert and Mary is a mystery as I have no further information about him or his parents.  One to chase up!

Good luck!

So the one baptised in 1706 is definitely not mine.
I will chase up the ones baptised in 1700 and 1707:
It could still be the one baptised in 1700, but he just went into another occupation, although he would have been 42 when he married Mary. I think that John's mother was an Elizabeth. John went onto have children called William and Elizabeth. I know that's not saying much at all but at least it's a start, haha!
When I briefly looked up the 1707 baptism, that was the only baptism between a Robert and a Mary
of a child of theirs that I could find. They may possibly have come from another county.
If it is not either of those two, I will probably have to look for baptisms outside the area of London.
But there is another alternative: He could have been possibly born illegitimate, and then adopted the name of Fleetwood later in life.
As I mentioned earlier, there was a John, son of a John Fleetwood who was baptised a few days old in 1729, in Wapping right near to Stepney. He was baptised John Eaton Fleetwood. His father was also a Weaver. If it were not for his age being so young at marriage, I may have plumped for that one. Also if it was him, would he have been put down as a "minor" at the time of marriage?

Regarding a burial for John Fleetwood:
A search result on Ancestry gives two burials for a John Fleetwood:
One in 1763, and one in 1780. I have a family tree on Ancestry, but do not subscribe to it. So I can't view it to view the area where those burials took place, unless I go to the library and view it on their edition for free. I viewed the Clandestine marriage of John in 1742, on Find My Past.
I downloaded the image from Ancestry, from the Library of Elizabeth Fleetwood, and Charles Stanley. They were married in 1770 in Shoreditch. They were both put down as being: "of the parish."
A John Fleetwood, who may have been Elizabeth's older brother/ Elizabeth's father, left his mark.
So there is a POSSIBILITY that John Fleetwood was buried in Shoreditch/ in the area of Shoreditch.

P.S. I since looked into the John Fleetwood baptism in 1706: I think that the John Fleetwood baptised in 1706, may POSSIBLY have been descended from Oliver Cromwell's oldest daughter Bridget: Bridget Cromwell married Henry Ireton. Henry Ireton died, and then Bridget married a Charles (I think his name was Charles), who was a general in the Civil War. This is all according to "hints and suggestions" on Ancestry.com anyway, haha! He may have been Oliver Cromwell's grandson/ great grandson. There was some link with Clerkenwell anyway. And Finsbury is in the area of Clerkenwell also.

Thank you.  :) ;)

Offline Suziq2

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Re: John Fleetwood and Mary Mucklow, married 3rd of December 1742
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 05 September 18 12:11 BST (UK) »
Charles Fleetwood married Bridget Ireton née Cromwell.  They had 5 children.  2 boys survived childhood to marry.  Cromwell Fleetwood (1653-1688) married Elizabeth Nevill and died without issue.  Smith Fleetwood (1644-1709) married (1) Mary Hartopp (2) Anne Lechemere and had 11 children. Only one of Smith's sons married and had issue.  Smith Fleetwood (c1674-1726) married Elizabeth Athill and they had one daughter, Elizabeth (c1711-1732).  This means that no-one with the surname 'Fleetwood' has descended from Oliver Cromwell!

Offline RobinRedBreast

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Re: John Fleetwood and Mary Mucklow, married 3rd of December 1742
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 05 September 18 12:16 BST (UK) »
Charles Fleetwood married Bridget Ireton née Cromwell.  They had 5 children.  2 boys survived childhood to marry.  Cromwell Fleetwood (1653-1688) married Elizabeth Nevill and died without issue.  Smith Fleetwood (1644-1709) married (1) Mary Hartopp (2) Anne Lechemere and had 11 children. Only one of Smith's sons married and had issue.  Smith Fleetwood (c1674-1726) married Elizabeth Athill and they had one daughter, Elizabeth (c1711-1732).  This means that no-one with the surname 'Fleetwood' has descended from Oliver Cromwell!

Yes, thank you.
I stand corrected. But please not that I typed: "POSSIBLY". If it was not the case, then it was not the case. People can make mistakes.  :) ;)

Offline Suziq2

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Re: John Fleetwood and Mary Mucklow, married 3rd of December 1742
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 05 September 18 13:54 BST (UK) »
It is a common misconception!  I thought you might like to have the facts at your fingertips, so to speak.

Offline Suziq2

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Re: John Fleetwood and Mary Mucklow, married 3rd of December 1742
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 05 September 18 17:10 BST (UK) »
John Fleetwood bap. 4 December 1707 St Anne & St Agnes, London, was buried at the same church 13 August 1710.  A search between 1700-1720 found no further Fleetwood baptisms or burials.