Author Topic: NYC men's group--1880s--two requests on this photo  (Read 1776 times)

Offline Alison55

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Re: NYC men's group--1880s--two requests on this photo
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 06 September 18 00:09 BST (UK) »
Curiouser and curiouser.  How can he tell that the photo was reversed?  It doesn't matter--I am just wondering. The photo is a tintype, if that matters.

Saint Christopher--interesting. Usually the patron saint of people who are traveling.  I am afraid it can't be soldiers as my great-grandfather was born in 1859 so a small child during the American Civil War.  But maybe he was a patron saint of those who worked in transportation?  Will have to google that.

This is most intriguing information. Thank you so much.


Offline DrDude45

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Re: NYC men's group--1880s--two requests on this photo
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 06 September 18 00:30 BST (UK) »
Curiouser and curiouser.  How can he tell that the photo was reversed?  It doesn't matter--I am just wondering. The photo is a tintype, if that matters.

Saint Christopher--interesting. Usually the patron saint of people who are traveling.  I am afraid it can't be soldiers as my great-grandfather was born in 1859 so a small child during the American Civil War.  But maybe he was a patron saint of those who worked in transportation?  Will have to google that.

This is most intriguing information. Thank you so much.

Men's clothes button up left over right, women's clothes right over left. As the men in the photo had their clothes buttoned right over left, it is a dead giveaway that the photo is reversed.

As it's a tintype photo, I can say a vast portion of tintype photos are reversed due to the process of making them, so unless it was done in a studio by someone of grand photographic skill (a rarity), odds are it's reversed. 

A side note: Women of wealth in the "old days" didn't dress themselves, so their fashions were made so the buttons & fasteners were setup as convenient for the right-handed person helping them dress, not the person wearing the outfit.

There were other wars he could have fought in, including the Spanish-American War in 1898 & the Philippine Insurrection 1900-1902, not to mention the years of conquering the "wild west" and fights with the native American people. It's also possible he simply served and was getting together with the old unit for a reunion. 

As to Saint Christopher, he is the Patron Saint of Travelers and Soldiers, the latter shortened to "Men in Uniform" as it also covers mail carriers in the modern times. Many US soldiers have carried a Saint Christopher small medal with them on the battlefield. The ones in the photo are ceremonial, so that denotes a reunion or memorial service.

Found this from https://www.catholicsaintmedals.com/about-st-christopher.aspx  :

"St. Christopher is the patron saint of the following causes:
Athletes, mariners, travelers, against lightning, bachelors, boatmen, soldiers, floods, a holy death, drivers, sailors, transportation workers."

Hope I've been some help. Sorry if I ramble.

Dr. Dude
I just like to do photo restores.

Offline Alison55

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Re: NYC men's group--1880s--two requests on this photo
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 06 September 18 00:42 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the info about the buttons and the reversal of the photo. I would never have noticed that.

I am sorry but the photo is definitely not a military reunion.  I know his life from birth on--much documentation and oral history.  This photo was in the 1880s and he never served except briefly as a civil engineer in WW1 in the US when he was almost 60.

Thanks again.

Offline DrDude45

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Re: NYC men's group--1880s--two requests on this photo
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 06 September 18 00:57 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the info about the buttons and the reversal of the photo. I would never have noticed that.

I am sorry but the photo is definitely not a military reunion.  I know his life from birth on--much documentation and oral history.  This photo was in the 1880s and he never served except briefly as a civil engineer in WW1 in the US when he was almost 60.

Thanks again.

I can only speculate based on what I've seen, which is the photo. ;-)

There are other possibilities, but I went with the most common. Here's a few that seem possible based on what little info is known on my end:

-Wells Fargo or a similar group as an agent, private security or armed guard detail
-Social club like the Elks or Moose (highly unlikely as their medallions are usually very specific)
-Postal workers group photo
-Civil engineers for a major project or company (i.e. transcontinental rail road, major bridge or building construction). Such photos as this could not only be used for memorial purposes, but by the company as promotional material as well.

The one with the sabre is the one that makes it harder to figure out what besides military it could be.

Again, just my two cents. Hope I've been of some help.

Dr. Dude
I just like to do photo restores.


Offline Alison55

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Re: NYC men's group--1880s--two requests on this photo
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 06 September 18 17:07 BST (UK) »
You have definitely been helpful, Dr Dude, and thank you very much. 

Offline maryellenk

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Re: NYC men's group--1880s--two requests on this photo
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 08 September 18 17:51 BST (UK) »
What about the Catholic mens' group, Knights of Columbus? They are very ceremonial and swords are part of the uniform.
Ireland - Burke, Burns, Farrell, Keane, Driscoll, Flanagan, Dolan
Sweden - Camferdam
Germany - Ruther, Pauli

Offline Alison55

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Re: NYC men's group--1880s--two requests on this photo
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 08 September 18 17:59 BST (UK) »
You have a good idea.  There was another Catholic men's group at the time called the Catholic Benevolent Legion or CBL, often mentioned in obituaries.  It was a combination of a self-funded insurance company--everyone pitched in a dollar or so so that your widow and children could be helped if you died--and also a social group holding events.  The CBL later merged with the Knights of Columbus.  I'll have to see if I can find out if they had swords or regalia.  Thanks for the suggestion.

PS--Should have mentioned I have another ancestor in the CBL and it was a very active group where my NYC ancestors lived.

Offline heywood

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Re: NYC men's group--1880s--two requests on this photo
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 08 September 18 18:04 BST (UK) »
What about the Catholic mens' group, Knights of Columbus? They are very ceremonial and swords are part of the uniform.

I was just browsing and saw this thread which I had looked at yesterday. I had a thought - perhaps it is a sodality similar to the Knights and here you are  :) I too would put this idea forward.
Heywood
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Offline maryellenk

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Re: NYC men's group--1880s--two requests on this photo
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 08 September 18 18:29 BST (UK) »
I also noticed that their hats are identical....more of the uniform?
Ireland - Burke, Burns, Farrell, Keane, Driscoll, Flanagan, Dolan
Sweden - Camferdam
Germany - Ruther, Pauli