Author Topic: The mysterious Robert Mogford (b. 1815, Clatworthy)!  (Read 1409 times)

Offline Rachael89

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The mysterious Robert Mogford (b. 1815, Clatworthy)!
« on: Wednesday 05 September 18 23:39 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

I'm looking into my family tree again, and have been struck by a particular figure named Robert Mogford - he's the rare immediate ancestor in my family tree who hasn't already been researched to within an inch of his life.

To quickly summarise:

- My 2 x great-grandfather is Thomas Mogford (b. 1855, Chipstable, Somerset) - Thomas Mogford is himself mysterious, and I haven't been able to pin him down in any census prior to 1891.
- The earliest definite record I can find for Thomas Mogford is for his marriage to Maria Tarr in 1885. This is the record that gave me a clue to Thomas's origin - he gives his father's name as Robert (occupation "Labourer").
- I have been able to find a "Robert Mogford" (b. 1815, Clatworthy, Somerset) who I think is very likely to be the father of Thomas - he married a woman named Martha Sayer in Ashbrittle in 1853, and Martha is from Chipstable (so the same birthplace as Thomas).

The really confusing thing is that I can find no trace of Thomas living with his hypothetical parents. I can find Robert and Martha living together in the 1871 census, but Thomas isn't listed.

Can anyone help to see if it is possible to establish a definite link between this Robert Mogford/Martha Sayer and my Thomas Mogford? I have looked into Robert Mogford, and it seems like he had some criminal convictions. He was the son of Richard Mogford and Amelia Fisher - Richard himself was the illegitimate child of Sarah Mogford.

It also looks like Robert was married to another woman before Martha Sayer (the marriage record to Martha lists him as a widower), but I can find no trace of this previous marriage. I am also unable to find any trace of other children. While Robert died in 1878, Martha died in 1906 - however, she seems to have alternated between the workhouse and lodgings, and she always seems to be recorded as living alone after Robert died.

There are other Robert Mogfords, mostly in Devon, but I'm reasonably confident that these are false leads with no direct connection to Thomas.

The whole situation seems very mysterious, and I've never come across anything quite like it before. Could anyone here try and help me fill in what I'm missing? I guess the main things I'm curious about are:

1. Can we establish a definite link between Thomas Mogford and Robert Mogford/Martha Sayer?
2. Can we find any siblings for Thomas Mogford?
3. Can we locate any earlier census records for Thomas, Robert and Martha (so pre-1891, aside from the 1871 census where Robert and Martha are listed)?

Thank you so much! I hope this presents an interesting challenge, as I'd love to learn more about this strand of my family.
Virgin, Mogford, Grant, Clay, Moss, Santer, Arkle

Online CaroleW

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Re: The mysterious Robert Mogford (b. 1815, Clatworthy)!
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 06 September 18 00:21 BST (UK) »
Freebmd has a Thomas Sayer birth June qtr 1852 Wellington 5c 402.  Chipstable was in the Wellington RD

GRO maiden name search shown no mmn for mother implying he was illegitimate

The 1853 marriage is the only female Sayer marriage in the Wellington RD between 1852-1861

I noticed that the freebmd marriage entry shows Robert as Mugford - as does the full GRO image
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Offline Rachael89

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Re: The mysterious Robert Mogford (b. 1815, Clatworthy)!
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 06 September 18 22:06 BST (UK) »
Hi, thanks very much for the insight. That's a good lead and I think I'll probably order the birth certificate in the hope of finding out more.

Can you see anything pointing to an earlier marriage for Robert Mogford?
Virgin, Mogford, Grant, Clay, Moss, Santer, Arkle

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Re: The mysterious Robert Mogford (b. 1815, Clatworthy)!
« Reply #3 on: Friday 07 September 18 00:54 BST (UK) »
Quote
I have been able to find a "Robert Mogford" (b. 1815, Clatworthy, Somerset) who I think is very likely to be the father of Thomas - he married a woman named Martha Sayer in Ashbrittle in 1853, and Martha is from Chipstable (so the same birthplace as Thomas).

1861 has a son John Mogford aged 8 b Clatworthy which was in the Williton RD - there is a John Mogford birth in Tiverton 1852 but mmn was Crouch

He is not the John Sayer birth Sept qtr 1853 - mmn was Shattock

In 1861 Robert is shown as b Huish Champflower Somerset 1812 but in 1871 it's Clatworthy 1815

There is an 1851 indexed as Malford but image seems to be Mogford and Emma's birth was Mogford with mmn Poole

Tiverton Devon

Robert 34 b Clatworthy
Ann 30 b ?? Luckurn Somerset
Ellen 5 b Bampton Devon
Emma 2 b Holcombe Devon
HO107/1890/99/21

Marriage 1845 Tiverton - Robert Mogford/Ann Poole

Possible death Ann Mogford aged 39?  March qtr 1853 Tiverton 5b 323

Marriage to Martha Sayer was Sept qtr 1853
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Offline ciderdrinker

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Re: The mysterious Robert Mogford (b. 1815, Clatworthy)!
« Reply #4 on: Friday 07 September 18 14:23 BST (UK) »
Hi
It seems Robert was a naughty boy.
There is a prison record for his stay in Wilton jail
Robert Mogford so 5ft 6in fresh complexion grey eyes dark brown hair married
7 stars  on each hand,woman and flag and RM on right arm
scar across the forehead
Born Clatworthy  last residence Holcombe labourer entered 4.6.1847

He was convicted on the 29th
Assault on a peace officer 1 week

Just added it for the tattoos really

ps he was in there 5.7.1842 as well.Then he was single without the tattoos  but with the scar .Last address Barton Ralph.

Ciderdrinker

Offline Rachael89

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Re: The mysterious Robert Mogford (b. 1815, Clatworthy)!
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 11 September 18 22:17 BST (UK) »
@ciderdrinker

Haha yes I saw that! I was very much amused by the elaborate description of the tattoos. Having his initials on his arms is particularly wild to me!

@CaroleW

Hmm how interesting! Do you know why one child might be listed under two entirely different names? I did see that record for the 1861 census, but didn't understand why "Thomas Mogford" would suddenly be listed as "John Mogford". Have you come across that before?
Virgin, Mogford, Grant, Clay, Moss, Santer, Arkle

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Re: The mysterious Robert Mogford (b. 1815, Clatworthy)!
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 11 September 18 22:58 BST (UK) »
You say Thomas was born 1855 but John was born 1852/53 so I can’t say they are one and the same nor can I be sure the 1851 entry is the right Robert.

I have known instances when a child has 2 christian names and is known by their middle rather than first one.  I haven’t personally come across a complete change in name but I’m sure it must have happened at some time.
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Offline djm297

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Re: The mysterious Robert Mogford (b. 1815, Clatworthy)!
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 12 September 18 19:36 BST (UK) »
In 1871 Census there is a Thomas Mugford born in 1852 in Hockworthy Devon (right on Somerset/ Devon border near Ashbrittle) living in the household of James King,a Farmer at Ashbrittle-Thomas is a servant. The other servant in the household was also born in Hockworthy, so maybe an error on transcribers part?

djm297

Offline trish1120

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Re: The mysterious Robert Mogford (b. 1815, Clatworthy)!
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 13 September 18 14:42 BST (UK) »
Deleted, info already known as I didnt read posting correctly :-[
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