How to go further....

[jonw65]

Hi
Sorry about the mixed results with the certificates. There could perhaps be some missing births as I have been unable to find one for Ann(ie) Barlow/Robertson even though she seems to still be alive in 1939 (with a date of birth that would fit for her)

Looking at 1911, it is the first thing that struck me as well, the years married and children not seeming to include Joseph. Sometimes we have seen couples push their number of years married back a bit and here is the opposite! Mind you, we haven't got a marriage!
It seems to be in keeping with everything else, it doesn't make much sense. Especially now you have Anna's birth certificate.
John

[jonw65]

Mind you, we haven't got a marriage!

Thinking about it again, I think that may be the reason. Elizabeth (Lizzie) is still with Joseph and Mary in 1911, age 30. So they have said they have been married 31 years. For respectability's sake. If Joseph had been there, they may have said 35!
Bit tough on Joseph though, not including him (or Anna) in the totals. It does rather look now as though the same Mary Ann was the mother of all of the children.

Do you know when Mary Ann died?
John

[IgorStrav]

Mind you, we haven't got a marriage!

Thinking about it again, I think that may be the reason. Elizabeth (Lizzie) is still with Joseph and Mary in 1911, age 30. So they have said they have been married 31 years. For respectability's sake. If Joseph had been there, they may have said 35!
Bit tough on Joseph though, not including him (or Anna) in the totals. It does rather look now as though the same Mary Ann was the mother of all of the children.

Do you know when Mary Ann died?
John

Maybe you're right, John.

Mary Ann's death may be
Sep 1920 Poplar Vol 1c Pg 357

But I don't have the cert.  May get it now she's suddenly likely to be my Great grandmother!!

By the way, did you notice that Annie Alice Marling's son William is registered as MARLIN MMN
ROBINSON (not Robertson)
aaaaargh

[IgorStrav]

Now trying to connect the Barlow family who lived close by to Mary Ann Barlow Burton, who must at one point have also had a WILLIAMS connection, as that was the MMN on my grandfather's birth certificate.

Any thoughts welcomed, as I am now going round and round in circles.

[IgorStrav]

It might be worth getting Mary Wayling's death certificate to see if it gives any clues to her identity and possibly who the informant may be.  Unlike some on the page, she's not listed as dying in the Workhouse but just the parish of Wapping St John.  Its also possible that her age may be wrong and she could perhaps be James' wife.  Wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

Just to update this (if you can bear to keep suffering it with me  ),
the death cert of Mary Wayling actually does show her as a widow, (no reference to husband's name), dying aged 70 of ascitis (which is liver disease and extremely unpleasant) in Wapping Workhouse.  Informant was a Nurse in the Workhouse.

So unfortunately no address or other clue to help.

I also ordered a birth cert for a Henry Wayling, born 1st December 1838 in Whitechapel, in case that would give me any further family help.  But he was the illegitimate son of an Elizabeth Wayling, and born in Whitechapel Workhouse.

There are a couple of Wayling families in and around the area - I will continue to see if I can track them in any way, especially if there are post 1837 registration events I can look at. 

[IgorStrav]

I just wanted to update you all after such sterling help with my problematic Burton/Barlow/Williams family in the poorest part of East London in the 19th Century.

I finally decided to buy the PDF of a birth for a Mary Ann Williams in 1870 just as a punt.

I thought that she might be the Mary Ann Barton (aged 13) who appears in the 1881 census with my Burton family (shown as Barton), given that my own Grandfather's birth certificate in 1876 shows his MMN as Williams,  (the other children in the family have Barlow).

And lo and behold, it is the right one!   

Mary Ann Williams, daughter of William Williams (Bricklayers Labourer), mother Mary Ann Williams formerly Barlow, born 13/10/1870, and registered in November 1870.

I have tried to find the family at their noted address at 2 Jane Street, Saint Paul, St George in the East in the 1871 - only a few months later - but they are not there, so I am going to go through the whole of the area from the images.

So far I've not found a death for William Williams, or pinned down possibles for him in an earlier census because of course I only have his name, not his age or place of birth - Mary Ann Barlow was born in c1852 in Whitechapel so he is probably though not necessarily of a similar age from a similar location.

And having decided from the help earlier that Mary Ann Barlow Williams Burton was my great grandmother, I got her 1920 death certificate, from which I discovered she died of a tubercular knee, which became gangrenous.  And that really tells you how difficult life was and how lucky I am to actually even be here.

Still no further with the mysterious local Barlows found by jonw65.

But I thought you might like to see your help has brought some success and confirmed my great grandmother for me.  Thank you all again.