Author Topic: How to go further....  (Read 4616 times)

Offline Lily M

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Re: How to go further....
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 08 September 18 22:09 BST (UK) »
This looks like little Anna.

Anna Burton died 1879 December quarter
St. George in the East
Less than a year old


There are so many Williamses!
I’ve found this one, who may or may not be connected.

Mary Ann Williams
Born 1870 St.George in the East
Mother’s maiden name Barlow

Baptism May 1871 St. George in the East
Mary Ann Williams parents Samuel and Mary Ann Williams - a shoe maker
Address looks like Bells Place

There’s no Bells Place on the 1871 census, but there is a Samuel Williams - shoe maker - married - aged 40 living at Pell Road

Unfortunately, although he claims to be married, he is living as a lodger without his family.   I can’t see the Mary Anns anywhere.

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: How to go further....
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 09 September 18 10:24 BST (UK) »

There are so many Williamses!
I’ve found this one, who may or may not be connected.

Mary Ann Williams
Born 1870 St.George in the East
Mother’s maiden name Barlow

Baptism May 1871 St. George in the East
Mary Ann Williams parents Samuel and Mary Ann Williams - a shoe maker
Address looks like Bells Place

There’s no Bells Place on the 1871 census, but there is a Samuel Williams - shoe maker - married - aged 40 living at Pell Road

Unfortunately, although he claims to be married, he is living as a lodger without his family.   I can’t see the Mary Anns anywhere.

Thanks for this Mary Ann Williams 1870 birth.  I had also been looking (as I said initially) for the Mary Ann BURTON (transcribed as Barton) in the 1881 with the family, as I thought she could be the illegitimate daughter of Mary Ann Williams, mother of my grandfather Joseph William.  She's shown as 13 in the 1881, but her dob could be 1870....

Aside from the Anna Burton birth and death certs, and the Mary Ann Burton death cert highlighted here, I should get this 1870 Mary Ann Williams birth certificate. 

Because maybe Josey is right and the Willliams/Barlow discrepancy is a red herring and they're the same Mary Ann. 

She was originally Barlow, 'married' and had a child with a Williams, and then 'married' Joseph Burton and continued her family with him.

Thank you very much for the suggestions, gives me a further avenue to explore!
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex

Offline Lily M

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Re: How to go further....
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 09 September 18 10:52 BST (UK) »
I suggest you get the Mary Ann Burton death certificate first.  If it looks to be the original wife, then the 1870 Mary Ann Williams/Barlow can’t be yours.

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: How to go further....
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 09 September 18 11:16 BST (UK) »
I suggest you get the Mary Ann Burton death certificate first.  If it looks to be the original wife, then the 1870 Mary Ann Williams/Barlow can’t be yours.

You're right, the death cert is the first one to get.

Thanks for looking at it all, the common names have driven me to desperation!!  ;D

If I may, I'll keep you updated as I think I may continue to need your expert fresh eyes....
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex


Offline jonw65

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Re: How to go further....
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 09 September 18 13:57 BST (UK) »
28 Star St, St George in the East
RG11/455/93 p 8
Joseph Barton   30 Head Marr Dock labourer b St Georges East, Middlesex
Mary A. Barton   31 wife
Joseph Barton   4
Mary A. Barton   13
Elizabeth Barton   

It's all a bit complicated for me. I just noticed that on the next census page at 34 Star Street is Elizabeth Barlow, 53, born Yorkshire, and daughter Anne, 16, a Custard Maker
Going back to 1871 in St George in the East
40 Hungerford St
Elizabeth Barlow Widow 43
John Barlow 11
Ann Barlow 5
Mary Ann Barlow 2
Says all born St George in the East

The only Mary Ann Barlow registered in east London a year either side of 1869 is
June 1868 St George in the East 1c 410
Barlow, Mary Ann     
mother Williams

Doesn't make much sense like that, just seems a strange coincidence.

Offline josey

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Re: How to go further....
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 09 September 18 14:08 BST (UK) »
the common names have driven me to desperation!!  ;D
Tell me about it - see the Williams in my surname interests  ;). I even have a Mary Williams too - not even a middle name to help! Also from St George in the East/Chelsea/Marylebone.

Still following the thread although I have not had time to do any further research j.ust yet
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline jonw65

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Re: How to go further....
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 09 September 18 14:13 BST (UK) »
Doesn't make much sense like that, just seems a strange coincidence.

1891
12 Hungerford St
Joseph Burton age 31(I think an error, wife shown as 40)
Birth c 1860 London

Class RG 12
Piece 286
Folio 27
Page 7

With wife Mary, and children Eliza, Charlotte, William, Alice and Joseph all the right sort of age.

There is a (very brief!) settlement record for an Elizabeth Barlow in St George in the East (LMA ref STBG/SG/94/16)
26.6.90
Barlow Elizabeth  67   
12 Hungerford St 1 wk
34 Star Street 14 yrs

Was in and out of the workhouse. The June admission seems to say from 12 Star Street! Which was correct?

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: How to go further....
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 09 September 18 18:21 BST (UK) »
Thank you jonw65 for the two posts, which I am still trying to get my head round.....
The 1891 Census you have found is indeed my family.

I think I will have to grit my teeth and buy some of these certs, if only to rule some of the people out.

Star Street and Hungerford Street do recur in my family history.  Very very poor bit of the East End.
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: How to go further....
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 09 September 18 18:23 BST (UK) »
the common names have driven me to desperation!!  ;D
Tell me about it - see the Williams in my surname interests  ;). I even have a Mary Williams too - not even a middle name to help! Also from St George in the East/Chelsea/Marylebone.

Still following the thread although I have not had time to do any further research j.ust yet

Josey, you have a Mary Williams who gives St George in the East AND Chelsea AND Marylebone as places of birth on various censuses?  Something very wrong there, they are very far apart and have no connection as areas....you're sure it really is the same Mary Williams?
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex