Baptism dues paid

[Jane Lucas]

My goodness Medpat.. that's shocking.. but not sanctioned by the church clearly... he was just another dodgy cleric. I'm sure a lot more of that went on unrecorded... it's not just the catholic church!

[stanmapstone]

It may not have been official but the local vicar at my sisters baptism asked for 2/6p from each person present (there were several to be baptised that day) it was after November 3rd 1950, so either late that year or early 1951.

One woman was crying as she didn't have the money and her group couldn't make up the money. The vicar had already said he'd refuse to baptise a child if the money wasn't handed over. My father went to her and gave her the money.

I was there and my father and I spoke about it several times. It was our nearest C of E church - 5 or 6 years later the same vicar ran off with the Easter collection and a female parishioner. 

After these incidents my father made sure we were sent to the local Methodist chapel for Sunday School.

That was  totally illegal in asking for money, under the 1873 Baptismal Fees Abolition Act, and it was a contravention of Ecclesiastical Law if baptism was refused. They should have reported him to the Diocesan Bishop.

Stan

[ThrelfallYorky]

Is there any possibility that the "Dues" may refer to something other than the baptism? To fees for a funeral, or some other event? I must admit I'd assumed that there was a right to baptism, and that would not involve a fee. Or could it have been a fee for expenses involved in a private baptism, for travelling or similar? I must admit I've loads of North Meols / Southport records in my ancestry, and not found that on any entry.

[medpat]

I doubt whether any of them knew that, remember in those days vicars were seen as important people and to be believed. My father a Methodist was disgusted and eventually talked mum into sending us to chapel.

In 1970 at my cousin's wedding (C of E) she was stopped from walking down the aisle by the vicar who told us they were refurbishing the church and he sent the plate around to help them and also so my cousin could have a nice wedding - you should have seen my father's face.

[Jane Lucas]

Thanks Threllfall.. we're probably related!! I've got Threlfalls in my tree somewhere.
Yes, I have dozens of North Meals baptisms too and I've never seen this before. I don't think it's related to a burial at all.. the only thing I can think is that it may be something to do with the family having only recently moved to the Parish. But they had a child baptised 2/3 years earlier and there was no entry against his name.
And if it was to do with the end of the 'old' year, as someone suggested, then why don't other years have a similar entry... it's a mystery!

[stanmapstone]

That was  totally illegal in asking for money, under the 1873 Baptismal Fees Abolition Act, and it was a contravention of Ecclesiastical Law if baptism was refused. They should have reported him to the Diocesan Bishop.

Stan

Just to add that the present Church Canons say;

 No minister shall refuse or, save for the purpose of preparing or instructing the parents or guardians or godparents, delay to baptize any infant within his cure that is brought to the church to be baptized, provided that due notice has been given and the provisions relating to godparents in these Canons are observed.

So the minister can refuse to baptize an infant that is not in his "cure" or parish.

Stan

[Maiden Stone]

I don't see another note saying "Fees Paid" in the baptism register. William Robinson's baptism on 20th March 1747/8 was last baptism before start of new year on 25th March.

The Burials Register 1732-1803 has the note "Fees Paid" several times during 1740s:
19th June 1742 John Tattersal;
10th March 1743/4 Mary Hodges page 14 Entry 25 (Last burial in March, therefore last in year.)
8th Jan. 1745/6 Dorothy Ball p. 16 entry 23;
31st Dec. 1746 John Linaker;
29th April 1748 Alice Ball.

Perhaps the note about fees paid was entered by mistake in the baptisms register instead of in the burials register and written in the burials register later, at end of April. Simple clerical error. Didn't baptisms and burials used to be in same register in some parishes?

The Rector, Rev. Shakespear died 1st Jan. 1747/8.

[Jane Lucas]

Oh well spotted Maidenstone. (1) I was sure William Robinson’s was not at the end of the year and I’d didn’t double check..oops. And (2) I did look for other dues pa’d notes but clearly didn’t go back far enough. In a way, that is even odder. I don’t think that there was a fee for burials either at that time.. yes, burials, Baptisms and Marriages were all mixed up in earlier Registers... but I have a copy of the LPRS Transcription for those... I’ve not looked right through it, but used it a lot. Even in the years when there were charges.. there is no dues paid entry...
my feeling is that any financial transactions were recorded in the Churchwardens accounts.. though I have seen burial fees occasionally in burial reg for another parish.

[ThrelfallYorky]

I'd always assumed that there were fees for burials, and of course, for weddings.