Charles Colin Charlesworth - London Regiment - Gallipoi to Western Front?

[CrichCarr]

Hi,

I'm back sooner than I thought and am now on the track of CHARLES COLIN CHARLESWORTH. He was once again born in Bonsall, Derbyshire but moved when he and his wife married. Amongst the things I have already found out about him is the following (found on the WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920)

Charles Colin Charlesworth UK,

Rank   Private

Regiment or Corps   London Regiment

Regimental Number   612235

Sub Unit   19th (County of London) Battalion (St. Pancras)

London Regiment
Piece 1939: 19th London Regiment (St Pancras Rifles)

Another document (see attached) states that he apparently served in two theatres of war and gives a number 5910 as well as 612235.

Comments in a file on Ancestry ('Soldiers who died in the Great War) inform me that he was in the King's Royal Rifle Corps and that his number was R/18193. The same file also give reference no's to two sets of London Regiment War Diaries, helpfully it also gives the following references which presumably clarify the two Theatres of War issue in which he was involved:

War Diaries (France, Belgium, Germany) - London Regiment P166S783
War Diaries (Gallipoli) -  London Regiment P166S783
   
The Effects Register says that he died at a hospital in France from the wounds he received (Gas I believe). Apparently the date of his death was 8/12/1917. He is buried at the Etaples Military Cemetery at Departement du Pas-de-Calais, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France.

I'm sorry for the long preamble but although I have found the links to the two sets of War Diaries for the London Regiment I'm struggling to find the sections that would hopefully clarify which parts might explain why Charles Colin Charlesworth might have been sent from Gallipoli to an area on the Western Front and especially where he might have come under a gas attack, from which, as I understand it, he subsequently died in the Military hospital. Anyone any ideas which numbers I might put in the War Diaries Keyword search box?

Regards,

Alan

[MaxD]

You are mis interpreting what you are seeing.

The two "theatres" on the medal roll are two spells in the same theatre 1a (France).

His two numbers 5910 and 6i2235 are pre and post the 1917 re-numbering.

He didn't serve overseas in the KRRC, only units served in overseas appear on the medal records.


The references on Ancestry to both sets of war diaries are not specific to the man, they are simply there to show that Ancestry have the diary sets.

He didn't go to Gallipoli, the only war diary you need to concern yourself with is the 19 London covering the period he was in France, 16 Jun 16 to 9 March 17 then 30 May 17 to 8 Dec 17.  The two month gap may well be a period during which he was wounded and went back to UK to hospital.
Does that clarify things?

MaxD

[MaxD]

Keyword 2738 - in the results Ancestry have written 9th London, mistake, it is 19th.

MaxD

[MaxD]

He died in 22 General Hospital which was one of five at Camiers on the coast north of Le Touquet.  You should look at the diary some time before 8 Dec for the possible action from  which he was casevacced.


MaxD

[jim1]

Just to add a bit of non essential info. If the London Regt. continued the number sequence with transferred men he moved from the KRRC approx. June 1916 which makes his entry in July sound feasible particularly considering what was about to come.
I notice 2/7/16 there was a draft of 2 Officers & 312 OR's from base.
This would be consistent with a man just arriving in France mid June as this was often followed by a couple of weeks additional training before being sent on.

[CrichCarr]

MaxD & jim1

Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding. Interestingly, I have come across a local newspaper report that mentions his death and in it does also reveal that Charles Colin Charlesworth was invalided home in the early part of 1917, and spent some time in a hospital back in the UK early in 1917, according to the newspaper report. I suppose this could be between 9th March 2017 and 30th May 2017 (see the report below). It seems that he then returned to the field of conflict by 30th May 2017.

Charlesworth, Charles Colin, Private, 612235, 1st/19th (St. Pancras) Battalion, London Regiment
Formerly R/18193, King’s Royal Rifle Corps
Served on the Western Front from 16th June 1916 to 9th March 1917 and from 30th May 1917 to 8th December 1917
Born Bonsall, Derbyshire
Enlisted Mansfield, Nottinghamshire
Resided Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Died of wounds 8th December 1917 aged 44
Son of William and Jemima Charlesworth; husband of Ruth Charlesworth, of Rowthorne, Doe Lea, Derbyshire.
Buried in Etaples Military Cemetery, XXXI, B, 9A

Again, thank you for giving me the keyword number pointing me to the War Diary for the London Regiment for the period prior to his death on December 8th 1917. There are several references in the first week of December to instances of 'gassing' and at least one case which says ''more cases sent to hospital". One such case, on the 4th December, could well have included Charles Colin Charlesworth. The telegram sent to his wife reporting his death on Saturday, 8th December arrived on the Monday, 10th December, so it seems perfectly possible that this particular gassing attack from which George died took place during the first week of December and was among those reported for that period in the London Regiment's War Diaries.

As to where the above action took place, in the War Diary consulted, just immediately prior to Charles Colin's death on the 8th December, places referred to in the Diary were BOURLON WOOD,  the HINDENBURG SUPPORT LINE, HERMIES and BERTHINCOURT. Do you think that the action in which Charles Colin Charlesworth was gassed, was therefore possibly part of the battle to take CAMBRAI?

Regards,

Alan

[jim1]

Yes it was that first attempt to take Cambrai which unfortunately failed.

[jim1]

If you want to know exactly what took place you need to look at the Div'l. diary.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mos/
Here's a little bit about the gassing.
The 19th. were in sector B to D

[CrichCarr]

jim1,

The latest information is absolutely fascinating. I have a great deal to learn. It must have taken you and MaxD years to learn what to look for and how to find it. If I may say again I am just so grateful for all your help. I will now go and read through the information from the Diaries that you have found. What horrors these soldiers suffered!

Regards,

Alan