Author Topic: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs  (Read 705 times)

Offline panished

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 16 October 18 19:36 BST (UK) »
 Thank you very much Mel, a great story for people to read, i see you have found dates to, i will take everything in and learn from such information, thank you, all of this informational research will now stay here and then other people may look at the hard work that you have done and then they to may also learn facts that may let them form a bigger picture, you know many people have wrote down the years about such things and offten in books, yet times moves on and books go out of print, we here on rootschat are doing our bit for the people like me who want to learn, sure there is nothing wrong with starting at the begining, every road must start somewhere. There is no dout in my mind we a looking at the Romany Gipsies of the old times in these story's, there may be many more Gipsies as old, we will see where the road leads, you never rearly know what may lay ahead, all you can do is set of and have ago, there will be many who went under the radar and just evolved without so many of the older ways, i am sure in what i am finding and what i have learned from listoning to others who have a close connection to old time family storys from past down oral talk, well i am sure the Herons have been about for a long time. I am cooking the dinner tonight so i will have to wait to write back in a day or so, with more story's, i am learning all the time, when this research is done the whole thread will be best read as one, and now Mel, you are the Star researcher, if you was here with me i would give you one of my chops, i,m cooking eight of them and mash potatoes, i will let the missus have two of them, merrm, well i don't want her to put to much weight on, the way i look at it i,m doing her a kind deed. I was going to write more on the Bosses next but seeing what you just found i will first show you more about the Herons in what i have found, then i will go back to the Bosses and write what i was going to put on next, then i will return to the Herons and more connecting names.

Thank you again for the great information about the times and history of these Great Gypsies i am sure their relatives who ever chance this way in the future will be most gratefull for you kind efforts and noble deeds in contributing too this ongoing research.

michael

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Offline panished

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 18 October 18 20:34 BST (UK) »
 
 The Glove inn Yard Beverley i am almost sure should be the Globe Inn. Below is another record of the past that people like me who have an interest in learning from the past will now learn from reading of the past accounts of Gipsies who though now gone will teach us the things we need to learn, this is how i see things, everyone must write as how they see things, that will be their truth, this is just my truth.

Hull Daily Mail
  Tuesday 15 April 1949
                                                   CARAVAN BURNT
                                                         AT GIPSYS
                                                           FUNERAL

THE OLD ROMANY RITE of “ going away,” in which all the dead man’s possessions are burnt, was carried out in Beverley today before the interment at Spring bank cemetery, Hull, of Polie Heron a well-known member of the English Romanies.
His valuable caravan, clothes, furniture and all the Widows possessions, except the clothes in which she was wearing, were taken to a field outside the town early today and there in the presence of nearly 100 mourners, some of whom had come from all parts of the Country, were destroyed by fire.

                                                    THE VACANT CHAIR.

In the middle of the morning, the cortege, the biggest seen in Beverley for a great many yeares, left the Market Place, watched by large numbers of the townspeople. Following the flower laden hearse was an open car filled with flowers and carrying the Widows tribute of “the vacant chair,” a wreath of flowers in the form of an armchair which later was deposited at the head of the grave.
This was the first year he had gone into winter quarters at the Glove Inn Yard Beverley. He died in a Hull nursing home on Thursday, after a painful illness.

r.i.p to all the Peoples i write of.

In this link below i think this is the Old Inn that is spoken of above
https://www.flickr.com/photos/erarchives/25408763685

In this link below schroll down to the Globe Inn and read of its vast history, then schroll down to the link at the bottom of the writing to see the old layout of the buildings from longago
https://www.paul-gibson.com/pubs-and-breweries/beverley-pubs-g-to-j.php

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Offline whiteout7

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 20 October 18 07:30 BST (UK) »
Polie Heron, do you think he may have been "Polius Heron" that Seraphim_angel published here?

http://www.geocities.ws/seraphim_angel_2002/HeronPedigree2.html

Can't find a death registration for him at the GRO for Polius Heron for 1949 but there is one for a Pooley Heron in 1950.

Wemyss/Crombie/Laing (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline whiteout7

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 20 October 18 07:40 BST (UK) »

Saturday 12 September 1936
Hull Daily Mail
Yorkshire

                                                  THE PASSING OF A GIPSY

                                                 Age-Old Ritual at Bridlington

The ritual which as been going on by the fraternity throughout the centuries was observed at Sewerby, near Bridlington, yesterday, when the funeral took place of Gipsy William Heron, who died at Sewerby at the age of 74. Yesterday afternoon the cortege left Sewerby for Hull, where the internment took place at Chanterlands-Avenue Cemetery.
Gipsy Heron was well known in Hull, and was properly the best-known horse dealer at the annual horse fairs which precede Hull fair. Among his own people he was looked upon has a “King”, and the mourners yesterday included some who had travelled from Scotland Ireland and the South of England to pay their last tributes.

Gipsy Heron was a native of Yorkshire, being born at Foxholes. Since the commencement of the season he had been living in his caravan on a camping field in Sewberby, and had been in in-indifferent health for the past two years. He lived in retirement for the past four or five years.

                                                      CARAVAN BURNED

Prior to the internment, Gipsy Herons caravan, in which where placed all his possessions and personal belongings, was burnt in accordance with the custom of his Race. Before the coffin was borne to Hull, only the ashes and the wheels of the caravan remained.  A special tent had been set up in which Gipsy Heron lay in state from Wednesday until Friday morning. During that time his relative also remained besides the tent. The tent was also burned yesterday afternoon.

The principal mourners were Mr Oscar Heron ( brother), Londonderry: Mr and Mrs F. Pickles. Son-in-law and Daughter.

Mr and Mrs F Pickles might have been "Frampton Pickles married to Annie Heron". Which would make Annie's parents William Heron and Jane Boswell. Her sister was Sibby Heron (born c 1888) married to Nelson Pickles (born c 1885) which would match the newspaper article


http://www.geocities.ws/seraphim_angel_2002/HeronPedigree2.html

Wonder where Frampton Pickles and Annie Heron wed? And what year? A private ceremony or a church one??
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline whiteout7

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 20 October 18 08:07 BST (UK) »
Frampton Pickles appears in the 1891 census as living in Salford Lancashire on Familysearch

(father) John Pickles   38   Lancashire, England
(mother) Sarah Pickles   40   Yorkshire, England
Frampton Pickles   6   England
Subey Pickles   4   England
Nelson Pickles 0 England.

Frampton Pickles born in 1885 is listed as passing in 1956 in Holderness, Yorkshire, England.

Nelson Pickles baptism:

Baptism: 16 Jul 1891 St John the Baptist, Burnley, Lancashire, England
Nelson Pickles - [Child] of John Pickles & Sarah
    Abode: Gannow Lane
    Occupation: Earthenware Dealer
    Baptised by: W. J. Gerratt
    Register: Baptisms 1887 - 1893, Page 59, Entry 468
    Source: Original Parish Register

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline panished

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 21 October 18 19:22 BST (UK) »
Hi Mel
 
The web site you put on with the Heron Pedigree as the Hammons as relatives of theirs.

This is what i wrote below on the Dan Boswell Thread

 
Nottinghamshire Guardian-Thursday 10 January 1861

Shire Hall,  Nottingham.

Sat.-(Before R Birkin, S.B.Wild, W. Needam, and  W.Hannay, Esqs.)

Radford. Life in the Gipsy Camp.-A gipsy named John Gray, of sombre cast of contenance, appeared in answer to a charge of assaulting a woman named Charlotte Hammond, whom he had espoused in conformity with “the marriage laws and customs of gisydom.” The complainant, a fortune-teller by profession, stated that on Tuesday night, the defendant struck her and injured her very much about the head, she was living with him at Radford at the time of the assault. The defendant commenced beating the woman's daughter very violently,  wherest the complainant became irritated and declared she would not stand by to see him brutally ill-treat her own child in that manner. The complainant gave satisfactory proof of defendant's ill-usage, and said he had behaved to her like a demon. He denied the charge, but the bench placed to much reliance on the woman's testimony to doubt that considerable violence had been inflicted upon her, and the defendant was fined 16s, 6d. Including expenses.

Nottingham Journal Monday 7January 1861

Disturbance among the Gypsies.

John Gray was charged with threatening language to Charlotte Hammond, on Tuesday evening last, at Radford. The parties were of the gipsy tribe, and during the disturbance one with another in their camp, the defendant threatened to murder complainant. After hearing the case, the magistrate ordered the defendant to be bound over in his own recognizances

Offline panished

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 21 October 18 19:27 BST (UK) »
 


http://www.galleriesofjustice.com/

click on this link above to learn of the Old ShireHall now the Galleries of Justice Museum





Nottinghamshire Guardian Thursday 21 October 1858

The  Zingari.—A  curious  scene transpired at the ShireHall on Saturday last. An athletic fellow, standing very little short of six feet, named John Gray, was charged before the right hon. Lord Belper, and a full Bench of Magistrates, with assaulting Levina Lee, another member of the Zingari or Gipsy tribe. The complainant stated that Gray, who had been in their camp three yeares, had been reproved for walking out at night with her sister, and in consequence of this he attacked Levina and lacerated her arm. Witness showed several marks of blows, and gesticulated violently. It appeared from the evidence of another witness who was called, that Gray had grasp of a bill hook in his hand and threatened to do murder with it, is menaces being directed towards Levina Lee. Gray prayed the Magistrates to remand him till Saturday in order to bring witnesses for his defence, which was accordingly done.-Vashti Lee, the sister who had been the cause of all this violence, was then put in the dock on a charge preferred by her own mother of stealing a valuable ring. She had the aquiline nose, chiselled features, and expressive face, which are generally the characteristics of this wandering race; dressed with great taste, wearing a feathered hat. Her mother said she was her own child, adding with some feeling, I would not hurt she. The Bench, who appeared to be greatly interested in the case, demanded the particulars, which the old woman declined to give, repeating, she my own child, I would not hurt she. The daughter then gave an account of how she became possessed of the jewel. It originally belonged to her grandmother, whom she tended in her last sickness, but no one was present at her death. She left no will, dying in the middle of the night. The ring was pledged at pawnbrokers in Lincoln, and redeemed by herself, for 8s.6d. As complainant declined to press the charge, she was set at liberty, and the mother demanded the ring. My ring, no gentlemen my ring if you please, my ring! Exclaimed the black eyed daughter; and as it was handed to her at the noble Chairman's request, she burst into tears, and shaking her finger at her mother, said you want to punish me, but  ya can't. Never mind Vashti, never mind, exclaimed the rebating voice of her dark adorer as he was conveyed to his remanded cell.

 
 
 
 

 

Offline panished

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 21 October 18 21:09 BST (UK) »
Nottingham shire Guardian Thursday 28 October 1858

The Gipsy Again- At the ShireHall, on Saturday last, John Gray was charged on remand with assaulting Levina Lee, who did not appear in support of the charge. He had been a prisoner a week on this accusation, having requested the Magistrates to remand him for that period in order to procure witnesses for the defence. Another charge was also made against him-that of breaking the peace in an assault upon Jacob Kirk, with a bill hook, at Bulwell, on Friday week, but the complainant appeared and said he did not wish to press the charge, but merely sought to have the prisoner bound over. As he did not enter into the particulars, the bench said Gray would be dismissed on promising not to offend again.- Gipsy; I will. I'll say nothing to him no more. I don't blame dis gentleman.-Lord Belper: There is 12s. to pay-Gray said he had not got the money, but his mother, a wizened frightful- looking old jade, came forwards and produced a sovereign from the inner folds of a vile dirty handkerchief, and the prisoner was then discharged.

  So the Hammonds are relatives also, on the records above the Grays are related to the Hammons to, they are also in the pedigree that you sent me, i found this record below with both familys on.

Friday 9 May 1845
 Stamford Mercury
Lincolnshire

— lsaac Hearn and Edw. Hearn, two Gipsies, were convicted of an assault upon Pyramus Gray, another Gipsy, and fined 10s. each and costs, amounting to 14s. fined in default of payment, they were committed to prison for 14 days. On the following day they paid the fine and costs, and were discharged.


Offline whiteout7

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 23 October 18 07:36 BST (UK) »
Charlotte Hammond being the mother of Vashti Lee and Levina Lee both born about 1833-35, in Norfolk (the girls father was Zachariah Lee)

Vashti Lee was espoused to a John Gray.

Charlotte Hammond was the ex-wife of Riley Boss (Alias James Heron?)

http://www.gypsygenealogy.com/showarticle.php?article_id=175

Wemyss/Crombie/Laing (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)