Author Topic: Alfred John Drinkwater (b1874, Kings X) Welsh miner or Brixton prisoner?  (Read 295 times)

Offline diplodicus

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Alfred John Drinkwater (b1874, Kings X) Welsh miner or Brixton prisoner?
« on: Friday 14 September 18 14:38 BST (UK) »
The 1901 census and 1911 census both show Alfred as a miner living in Llanwonno (Mountain Ash, Glamorgan) although born in London. In my Ancestry tree I have added him as baptised at St George the Martyr, Queen Square, London (as were his siblings). His father was another Alfred, watchmaker of Theobalds Road.

So here's the problem...

I have little confidence in my linking of this particular early Alfred to my later coal mining variety. There are a couple of others bearing a similar name (London or Cheshire) and I would welcome any assistance that links an early one with my late one. If I could find out where he ended up, that would be a bonus!

1896 - marries Mary Anne Evans Llandovery Q4/1896 11a1563.
1901 - 46 Phillip St. Llanwonno, Glamorgan. Family back in Cilycwm, Carms. Born St Pancras.
1911 - 50 Arnold St. Caegarw, Mountain Ash. Family with him. Born Kings X.

Two of his youngest known daughters were still in Wales when they married in the 1930s.


My thanks as always to fellow Rootschatters,
Malcolm
Thomas, Davies, Jones, Walters, Daniel in Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion. That should narrow it down a bit!
Vincent: Fressingfield, Suffolk, Stockton & Sunderland.
Murtha/Murtaugh: Dundalk & Sunderland
Ingram: Cairnie by Huntly, Scotland then Abergavenny
Bardouleau: London - in memory of my stepmother Annie Rose née Bardouleau who put up with a lot from me.
gedmatch.com A006809
Kit uploaded to familytreedna.com B171041
Y-DNA R-M269 & mtDNA U5b1f

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Offline osprey

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Re: Alfred John Drinkwater (b1874, Kings X) Welsh miner or Brixton prisoner?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 14 September 18 15:09 BST (UK) »
He's also on the 1891 census in Cwmcothi, Conwil Caio as an 18 year old farm servant RG12/4507 folio 53 pg 6. On all census entries he is noted as speaking both English & Welsh.
He doesn't appear on Alfred John, just Alfred on census entries, his marriage and his death reg, aged 51 in dec qtr 1924. Age on death and on 1891 census suggests he was born before 1874.

Involved in the Baptist Church in Mountain Ash, singing a solo

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3578081/3578088/112/

 again

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3577748/3577751/25/
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

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Offline osprey

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Re: Alfred John Drinkwater (b1874, Kings X) Welsh miner or Brixton prisoner?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 14 September 18 15:11 BST (UK) »
more singing and daughters involved in recitations

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3577107/3577112/49/

 ;)
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Alfred John Drinkwater (b1874, Kings X) Welsh miner or Brixton prisoner?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 14 September 18 15:21 BST (UK) »
think this one from 1881 is more likely to be the one in Carmarthenshire & Glam, but marriage cert would confirm name of father & his occupation

1881 26 Caledonia Street, Islington RG11/229 folio 90 pg 29
Alfred Drinkwater head mar 35 cabdriver b. Glos, Tewkesbury
Mariann wife 33 born ? Middx
Ann P?th mother widow 70 b. Ireland
Elizabeth dau 12 b. St Giles
Alfred son 8 b. St Pancras
Arthur son 5 b. St Mary's
Anne dau 3 b. St Pancras
Mary Ann dau 2 b. Holborn
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Alfred John Drinkwater (b1874, Kings X) Welsh miner or Brixton prisoner?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 14 September 18 15:47 BST (UK) »
2 birth regs
Alfred Drinkwater sept qtr 1873 Pancras vol 1b pg 75 mmn Rush

Alfred John Drinkwater march qtr 1874 Holborn vol 1b pg 645 mmn Lister
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline diplodicus

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Re: Alfred John Drinkwater (b1874, Kings X) Welsh miner or Brixton prisoner?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 14 September 18 16:45 BST (UK) »
Thank you Osprey,

I tend not to spend my pension on non-blood spouses of blood relatives, hence my original post. In the case of Alfred's wife, I'm not sure that we are related. Mary Anne Evans of Cilycwm is an ancestor of a couple of people with whom I share some common DNA. I'm still trying to find the missing link.

Ambiguous Alfred got to me but I'm not sure we'll ever know how he ends up in Conwil Caio (a few miles north of Cilycwm).

There's a picture of Ffrwd Baptist Chapel in Mountain Ash on Flicke. It appears to have closed for worship; there's a "To Let" board on it.
Thomas, Davies, Jones, Walters, Daniel in Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion. That should narrow it down a bit!
Vincent: Fressingfield, Suffolk, Stockton & Sunderland.
Murtha/Murtaugh: Dundalk & Sunderland
Ingram: Cairnie by Huntly, Scotland then Abergavenny
Bardouleau: London - in memory of my stepmother Annie Rose née Bardouleau who put up with a lot from me.
gedmatch.com A006809
Kit uploaded to familytreedna.com B171041
Y-DNA R-M269 & mtDNA U5b1f

Offline osprey

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Re: Alfred John Drinkwater (b1874, Kings X) Welsh miner or Brixton prisoner?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 14 September 18 17:05 BST (UK) »
1861 37 & 38 Theobalds St RG9/183 folio 64 pg 54
Henry Drinkwater head mar 45 coffee house keeper b. Glos, Beckford
Sarah wife 40 b. Beckford
Alfred son 17 cab diver b. Beckford
Henry son 15 b. Beckford
Laurie dau 12 b. St Andrews Holborn
Fanny dau 9 b. St Andrews
Francis son 7 b. Clerkenwell
Thomas son 5 b. St Andrews
John son 2 b. St Andrews
Louisa dau 1 b. St Andrews
John Richards lodger 2 b. Devon, Newton Abbot

1851 40 Theobalds Rd HO107/1513 folio 342 pg 35
Henry Drinkwater head mar 30 driver of post cart b. Cheltenham
Sarah wife 27
William son 19 errands
Agnes dau 10
Alfred son 7
Henry son 4
Lavinia dau 2 b. Middx
all born Beckford apart from noted

1841 Beckford HO107/368/9 folio 8 pg 11
William Smith 85 on the parish
Henry Drinkwater 25 ag lab
Sarah 20
Elizabeth 4
William 2
Agnes 3 months

birth reg Alfred Drinkwater sept qtr 1843 Winchcomb vol 11 pg 478 mmn Colley

Henry & Sarah have gone back to Beckford by the 1871 census but widowed Sarah is back in London by the 1881.

in case you want this...
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline diplodicus

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Re: Alfred John Drinkwater (b1874, Kings X) Welsh miner or Brixton prisoner?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 14 September 18 17:12 BST (UK) »
Oh no Osprey, having shown me that my original assumptions about the Alfred born to a cabinet maker of 79 Theobalds Road were erroneous, you now place them close together again ??? ??? ???
Thomas, Davies, Jones, Walters, Daniel in Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion. That should narrow it down a bit!
Vincent: Fressingfield, Suffolk, Stockton & Sunderland.
Murtha/Murtaugh: Dundalk & Sunderland
Ingram: Cairnie by Huntly, Scotland then Abergavenny
Bardouleau: London - in memory of my stepmother Annie Rose née Bardouleau who put up with a lot from me.
gedmatch.com A006809
Kit uploaded to familytreedna.com B171041
Y-DNA R-M269 & mtDNA U5b1f

Offline osprey

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Re: Alfred John Drinkwater (b1874, Kings X) Welsh miner or Brixton prisoner?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 14 September 18 17:40 BST (UK) »
father of Alfred senior is Henry though not William. The Theobalds Road is just a coincidence, I think...

Alfred Drinkwater married Mary Ann Rush 2 Sept 1872 at St Mary Whitechapel, his father Henry, carrier, and hers George a stone mason. One of the witnesses is Michael Rush.

Alfred John Drinkwater married Elizabeth Lister at St Mary Lambeth 19 Dec 1869, his father William Henry, dyer, and hers John, stone mason. 
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb