Author Topic: James Harkiss  (Read 2738 times)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: James Harkiss
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 18 September 18 23:31 BST (UK) »
Thanks Chempat...

Witnesses & addresses (non existant) not a lot of help  ::)

It may be worth trying to find the sibling David who's on the 1851 census (less common forename & surname combined) to see what he has to say if he marries  ???  ;D

Annie

South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

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Re: James Harkiss
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 18 September 18 23:45 BST (UK) »
Did James sign on his marriage or was it his mark 'x'?

Just a thought but...

From looking at the 1851 census which looks perfectly legitimate is it possible (on his marriage) for the person above or below his entry in the Register to have a father George which has been mistranscribed onto his details on the cert.  ???

Can you look at the other entry (for father's name/occ.) on the same pg & is James 1st or 2nd on the pg as the other entry (not showing above or below) may be a George?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline chempat

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Re: James Harkiss
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 18 September 18 23:56 BST (UK) »
Did James sign on his marriage or was it his mark 'x'?

Just a thought but...

From looking at the 1851 census which looks perfectly legitimate is it possible (on his marriage) for the person above or below his entry in the Register to have a father George which has been mistranscribed onto his details on the cert.  ???

Can you look at the other entry (for father's name/occ.) on the same pg & is James 1st or 2nd on the pg as the other entry (not showing above or below) may be a George?

Annie

Says they both signed and the entry is top of page so George does not appear to have come from elsewhere.

David Harkess marries in 1857, son of James Harkess, brickmaker, and Jean Muir.

Thank-you all.  Gone to bed.  Work tomorrow.

Offline Rosinish

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Re: James Harkiss
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 19 September 18 00:08 BST (UK) »
Says they both signed and the entry is top of page so George does not appear to have come from elsewhere.

David Harkess marries in 1857, son of James Harkess, brickmaker, and Jean Muir.

The page you have only contains 2 entries i.e. the entry prior may have had a father named George?

It was only a suggestion as to where 'George' crept in?

I don't know how those details were recorded regarding dates/where in the same parish etc. but seems a possible explanation?

Weddings usually took place at the bride's home or elsewhere rather than in a Church & notes taken then added later i.e. errors occured & it seems to me to have been a clerical error or transcription error re 'George'?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"


Offline chempat

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Re: James Harkiss
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 19 September 18 06:47 BST (UK) »
The wedding did indeed take place at the bride's home. 

Do not know if there is an easy way to see the previous entry, no obvious arrow (requesting more money - this is my son-in-law's family, never done Scottish records in such details before).

Offline isobelw

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Re: James Harkiss
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 19 September 18 09:32 BST (UK) »
I noticed that an 18 year old James Harkiss also died in 1884 in Dalkeith. As he matched the age of a possible son of James Harkiss and Elizabeth Middleton I have checked his death certificate for you. He is indeed their son and his address is Tabernacle Close, which matches the address for the James Harkiss who was the informant on James snr’s death certificate. His father James ( a Tailor) was the informant. He died on 1st Sept 1884, was single, and his trade was Iron Moulder.
Not sure why James should have lied about his parents on his marriage certificate, but I think he is almost certainly the son of James Harkiss and Jane Muir ( born in 1843 in Dalkeith). I suspect Jane was the daughter of George Muir and Marion Horsburgh who married in Dalkeith in 1794.
Isobel
Clotworthy, McMahon, Saunderson, Culley (Ireland & Scotland)
Weatherall, Greer (Ireland & Scotland)
Hamilton, Johnston, Dawson, Rennie, Wright (Clackmannanshire)

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Re: James Harkiss
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 19 September 18 11:31 BST (UK) »
Not sure why James should have lied about his parents on his marriage certificate, but I think he is almost certainly the son of James Harkiss and Jane Muir ( born in 1843 in Dalkeith). I suspect Jane was the daughter of George Muir and Marion Horsburgh who married in Dalkeith in 1794.
I think you may have hit on the answer - he was muddling the names of his parents and grandparents - grandfather's given name, father's surname, mother's given name, grandmother's maiden surname.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline chempat

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Re: James Harkiss
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 19 September 18 20:44 BST (UK) »
I noticed that an 18 year old James Harkiss also died in 1884 in Dalkeith. As he matched the age of a possible son of James Harkiss and Elizabeth Middleton I have checked his death certificate for you. He is indeed their son and his address is Tabernacle Close, which matches the address for the James Harkiss who was the informant on James snr’s death certificate. His father James ( a Tailor) was the informant. He died on 1st Sept 1884, was single, and his trade was Iron Moulder.

Thank-you for doing that - looks conclusive.

I was not happy at what looked like a rather large assumption as to mixing up of names, but having the same address is a lot better.

I had even managed to find the death of a Jane Hoggarth (widow, age not recorded) relative a George Herkis, gardener, in 1854 in Inveresk, which looked very good.   (Horsburgh had looked a long way from Hogarth).

Pat