Author Topic: Marriage of George MENZIES and Margaret THOMSON  (Read 1731 times)

Offline sw1

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Marriage of George MENZIES and Margaret THOMSON
« on: Friday 28 September 18 10:55 BST (UK) »
Try as I might, I cannot find this marriage!  It was probably between 1817 and 1820. I've searched SP using single surnames, both surnames, one surname and one first name of the other and vice versa, I've tried different variants and spelling. I searched Dumfriesshire alone, Kirkcudbrightshire alone and all counties. I've even looked in England, just across the border.
Why is he not there??? Am hoping someone might have some ideas.

George Menzies was born about 1791. I did find a possible baptism of 1787 at Durrisdeer on 24 Aug 1787 but am unsure of that at the moment.

Margaret Thomson was born 1799 in Glencairn, daughter of William Thomson and Jane Patterson who were named as her parents on her death certificate in 1878.
She died at 67 Glasgow Street, Maxwelltown, death registered in Troqueer.

The death certificate says...Margaret Menzies, widow of George Menzies, foreman iron founder...which was his occupation.

They had 10 children staring with David b 24 Aug 1819 up to Elizabeth born 16 Sep 1841.  Their birth and baptism dates were found on SP and both parents were named. Two of the sons who married named their parents as George Menzies, iron moulder and Margaret Menzies MS Thomson on their marriage certificates..

George and Margaret are at Glasgow West Street, Troqueer in 1841 with 7 children; thereafter, George did not appear with Margaret on any subsequent censuses so must have died between 1841 and 1851. Can't find his death either...which might have helped! The only one vague one was a George Menzies who died in Glasgow aged 57, a joiner. That's all it said on the OPR so not much to go on.

If anyone has any ideas...I'd love to hear them.
I did wonder if the Troqueer PRs were still available or whether they have been lost or something. These things did happen.

Suzie

Offline madeira066

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Re: Marriage of George MENZIES and Margaret THOMSON
« Reply #1 on: Friday 28 September 18 12:50 BST (UK) »
Hi sw1.
I spent many years looking for the marriage of my GG/Grandmother in Dumfries without any success, then a member of this forum found for me her marriage in Dumfries it was an irregular Scottish marriage and it was listed in the Dumfries Kirk Sessions in 1817. Is it possible that your couple had an irregular marriage?.
Regards Dave.

Offline sw1

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Re: Marriage of George MENZIES and Margaret THOMSON
« Reply #2 on: Friday 28 September 18 13:05 BST (UK) »
Dave...thank you for that idea.
Not thought of Kirk Sessions. I'll investigate further.
Thanks for the tip.
Suzie

Offline Gadget

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Re: Marriage of George MENZIES and Margaret THOMSON
« Reply #3 on: Friday 28 September 18 13:26 BST (UK) »
In addition to irregular marriages, it could be that the entry hasn't survived or is not on SP because of illegibility, etc. 

I have two instances of missing marriage records-

1. 3 x great grandparents' marriage in Kells  is not on SP but was found by cousins on the FS film at one of the Family History centres. I have a copy of it and it is badly damaged but legible

2. My 2x great grandparents marriage is not showing because the OPRs for Parton are all missing for that particular time period. Family account, letters, etc. indicate their marriage.

Sometime ago (soon after I joined RC), I recall reading a posting which suggested that only about 30% of marriages  which took place before 1855 are recorded,

See also https://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/


Gadget

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Re: Marriage of George MENZIES and Margaret THOMSON
« Reply #4 on: Friday 28 September 18 13:51 BST (UK) »
The Dumfries Kirk Session Records that Dave mentions can be found here:

https://info.dumgal.gov.uk/HistoricalIndexes/
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Offline sw1

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Re: Marriage of George MENZIES and Margaret THOMSON
« Reply #5 on: Friday 28 September 18 15:55 BST (UK) »
Gadget...we've spoken before I think.
I think you may be right...perhaps the records never survived or are missing somehow...and it is pre-1855 by a long way so there we are. I've tried every possibility in searching SP to no avail.

Thank you for the link previously mentioned. Have bookmarked it and will browse later.
Many thanks.
Suzie

Offline BWCJMTDC

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Re: Marriage of George MENZIES and Margaret THOMSON
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 08 December 20 05:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi sw1, I'm researching this line now, so if you have had any luck with discoveries since this last message, i am interested to learn :)

I think you may be right...perhaps the records never survived or are missing somehow...and it is pre-1855 by a long way so there we are. I've tried every possibility in searching SP to no avail.

Offline BWCJMTDC

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Re: Marriage of George MENZIES and Margaret THOMSON
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 08 December 20 14:01 GMT (UK) »
hi again, is it ok if i paste info about this family here?

i found a rootsweb post for ~dfsgal with monumental inscriptions for Holywood church in Dumfries, with this one particular MI that mostly aligns with your information: ID#4783
"In Memory of Janet Thomson, spouse to James Dixon in Munches, who died March 4th 1815 aged 29 years Also James her brother, who died at Crossleys Jan 8th 1810 aged 13 years Also William Thomson their father, who died 15th January 1821 aged 65 years Also Jean Paterson his spouse, who died at Cluden 31st Jan 1840 aged 81 years Also George Menzies their son-in-law, died at Maxwelltown 11th March 1849 aged 60 Also Margaret Thomson his wife, who died there 25th May 1878 aged 80 years Also Mary Thomson, born 16th January 1793, died on the 24th of July 1889"

.snip.
Margaret Thomson was born 1799 in Glencairn, daughter of William Thomson and Jane Patterson who were named as her parents on her death certificate in 1878.
She died at 67 Glasgow Street, Maxwelltown, death registered in Troqueer.
The death certificate says...Margaret Menzies, widow of George Menzies, foreman iron founder...which was his occupation.
.snip.
George did not appear with Margaret on any subsequent censuses so must have died between 1841 and 1851. Can't find his death either...which might have helped! The only one vague one was a George Menzies who died in Glasgow aged 57, a joiner. That's all it said on the OPR so not much to go on.
.snip.

Offline BWCJMTDC

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Re: Marriage of George MENZIES and Margaret THOMSON
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 08 December 20 15:32 GMT (UK) »
i found this map of Maxwelltown from 1819, with Mr Wm Thomson's residence appearing on a road labelled Galloway.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400022#zoom=6&lat=6597&lon=1305&layers=BT