Author Topic: Address known in Ramsgate in 1939 - but where are the occupants?  (Read 1582 times)

Offline dtcoulson

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Address known in Ramsgate in 1939 - but where are the occupants?
« on: Friday 28 September 18 14:16 BST (UK) »
Hello people.

A newspaper extract dated Dec 15 1939 (Thanet advertiser) mentions Petty Officer Charles Henry Port and says that he lives in Avenue Rd, Ramsgate.

This is three months -ish after the formation of the 1939 register. I went looking for him or his family in the houses of that street but came up blank. Instead, the woman that I thought he married in 1912 is living in Mayforth Gardens with (whom I believe are) their children, she being Elizabeth Louisa Port nee Smith, born in 1884.

Can anyone help me to work out what is going on here?

() Maybe they moved house during those three months?
() Maybe I have misidentified Mr Port's wife?
() Maybe he is living alone and does not appear in the register because of his Navy career?

What I am hoping to achieve is to verify that I have 'married' the right people together.
Alternatively, if I have made a mistake, I would like that to be established.

Over to you.

Thanks
-David C

Offline rosie99

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Re: Address known in Ramsgate in 1939 - but where are the occupants?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 28 September 18 14:17 BST (UK) »
He would not be in the register as it was for civilians only.

ADDED  Is Elizabeth the first person listed or is she living with someone else
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Offline dtcoulson

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Re: Address known in Ramsgate in 1939 - but where are the occupants?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 28 September 18 15:36 BST (UK) »
The positioning of the names on the original scanned image is very interesting:

1:   'closed'
2:   Port, Eva F  .... (Elizabeth's daughter in law)                 
3:   Port, John S  ....  (son of Eva)
4:   Port, Elizabeth L  ... (Mrs Charles H Port)
5:   Fuller, Joan E  ...  (unsure, but surname matches Eva's maiden name)


Am I on your wavelength if I conclude from the sequence of the names on the page that
Elizabeth is actually staying in the house of her son, Stanley C Port, and that his name is blacked out for some reason?

Where, then, is her husband? And what about the house in Avenue Rd?

-DC

Offline rosie99

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Re: Address known in Ramsgate in 1939 - but where are the occupants?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 28 September 18 15:47 BST (UK) »
If Elizabeths husband was a serving Petty Officer he will not appear on the register.  The register was compiled for the issue of ration cards etc for civilians.

It is possible that the first person named is Stanley C Port (bn 1913 according to the GRO index)  I see he did not die until 2002 so it is possible that his name has not been uncovered yet. 
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Offline Comberton

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Re: Address known in Ramsgate in 1939 - but where are the occupants?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 28 September 18 16:08 BST (UK) »
The transcription on FindMyPast has No. 3 closed and No. 1 details showing, the image has this reversed

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Address known in Ramsgate in 1939 - but where are the occupants?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 28 September 18 16:20 BST (UK) »
Yes it looks like they've redacted the wrong entry. Stanley Port born 1913 is on the transcription, as is the house name, Evanstan.
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Offline dtcoulson

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Re: Address known in Ramsgate in 1939 - but where are the occupants?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 28 September 18 16:25 BST (UK) »
I was just summarising in an email to a family member what we can deduce from the 1939 register and some frightening thoughts occurred to me, things I would like to investigate with your help if this is at all possible.

Before I get to that, let me speculate on some living arrangements: If Charles H Port, the Petty Officer, is living alone in Avenue Rd, and he does not qualify for inclusion in the register, then his house would appear to be vacant. There are several houses like this in Avenue Rd, if you search the 1939 reg in Address mode. Charles & Elizabeth therefore might be living apart for any one of a number of reasons.

Alternatively, there is a three month gap between the creation of the register and the newspaper clip. Charles and Elizabeth might have stayed together with their son and his family in Mayforth Garden in September and then moved to Avenue Rd in December. In time of war, relocation may have been a requirement or simply a wise thing to do.

But now the scary bit. Elizabeth Port experienced a tragedy during the war. Details have never been fully clarified but the story as passed down to me from my Mum, who got this from her own Mum etc etc is that Elizabeth's house was bombed or shelled or strafed during the war. She was standing by the window and was struck by something and knocked down the stairs. All of this is vague. Whatever physical injuries she sustained, she was also traumatised and had to be warded for the rest of her days, dying in hospital care in 1946. This much we know.

The fact that the first name on the record is blacked out - and we presume this to be the son, Stanley who you say died in 2002 and may still be thought of by the administrators of the register as still living - and the names of his wife and 2 year old son are *not* blacked out tells me that these two family members are dead. Are we looking at people who died in the same incident that so badly affected Elizabeth? Is it possible to find out?

Any help in this direction appreciated.

-DC


Offline JJen

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Re: Address known in Ramsgate in 1939 - but where are the occupants?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 28 September 18 16:49 BST (UK) »
Elizabeth L Port of 2 Myrtle Cottages Forge Lane, (wife of Charles Henry Port) died 25 Mar 1946 at The Hospital Chartham, Kent. Administration to Charles Henry Port retired Chief Petty Officer RN.

JJ

Offline dtcoulson

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Re: Address known in Ramsgate in 1939 - but where are the occupants?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 28 September 18 17:01 BST (UK) »
Excellent: proof that I have put the right two people together.

Can you give me your source for that data?

Also, on the issue of the deaths of the wife and child, I realised later that it was a very straight-forward exercise to go and look for them in FindMyPast. Eva died 1985. No death record for young John. Therefore I conclude that the name that was supposed to be redacted was that of John, not his father. Somehow these names got mixed.

While I'm thinking of the bombing event, is there somewhere I can go to find out which streets were hit? Or were the attacks on Ramsgate so widespread that listing streets was pointless?

-DC